Joe 0:00

Last time on Shelf to Screened.

Tom 0:02

The movie is like, what the fuck? And the book just tells you what's going on.

Jen 0:06

It's almost like the movie's asking you to like interpret it yourself, especially the end, but then you read the book and you're like, oh no, don't interpret it. Here's what's happening.

Tom 0:13

The bo yeah, the movie is like completely like just feel it, man.

Jen 0:18

That's not something I do.

Joe 0:40

I wanted to bring down my copy of the book because I bought a used copy. It's a it's a paperback, but it's like a first edition paperback. Um and it's cool because in the middle of the book, it's got a few pages that are images from the movie.

Tom 0:54

Oh, that's really cool.

Joe 0:55

Yeah, it's cool. Um they're like, you know, like photo paper in the middle of the in the book with like three or four pictures, um, which I thought was kind of cool. And then in the back of the book, and I forgot about this, that books used to do this, right? They used they would they would try to sell other books in the back of the book, yeah. And then like it would like cut this off, and you'd fill in your name and stuff and send send a check for send a check for a dollar fifty for like and 25 cents for postage. It's like it was ridiculous. The prices were ridiculous. It was like a dollar fifty or something like that for this book, plus like 25 cent postage. I was like, oh man, I I'm very tempted to cut this off and mail it and see what happens. See what happens. That company probably doesn't exist anymore that it goes to. But I was like, oh, that's so cool. I like that. Definitely a lot of fun. Yeah, but you don't get to see that. Maybe I'll show you if you come over to my house. This is Shelf to Screen, the podcast where we discuss sci-fi and fantasy literary adaptations to the big andor small screen. I'm Dave Joman.

Jen 1:59

I'm Dave is Grohman.

Tom 2:02

And I'm uh I'm Tom Kubrick.

Jen 2:06

Tom Kakoman.

Tom 2:08

Tom Tom Lee Kubrick. That sounds sounds odd to me for some reason. Dr. Frank Tom. Dr. Frank Tom, yeah.

Joe 2:18

Um Dr. Tomwood R. Floyd.

Tom 2:26

Yes, I'm Dr. Tomwood R. Floyd. Um, oh I got it.

Jen 2:31

Sounds like a Muppet.

Joe 2:32

Dr. Ralph Halvertom.

Tom 2:35

There we go. That's it. There's another character.

Joe 2:40

Um, that's enough for that.

Jen 2:46

The dawn of Jen.

Joe 2:48

The Dawn of Jen.

Jen 2:50

Alright, we got them all.

Joe 2:55

We're continuing our incredible voyage through 2001 A Space Odyssey, having already discussed the uh journey of the book. Well, journey of the book and movie, because they both kind of happen simultaneously. Um we're gonna pick up where we always pick up, somewhere in the middle, having already discussed the beginning and the end.

Tom 3:19

That's true. Well, you you I think we we left last episode off right at the end of the opening segment of the film, right? So this time we're gonna pick it up.

Joe 3:27

We discussed the dawn of men, right? So let's uh time jump, everybody. Ha ha. Time jump. And figuratively, we head to uh we're on a spaceship. All right, so this is the part of the movie where I think Kubrick, I I get to the point where I'm like, I feel like Kubrick's just showing off.

Tom 3:47

He is showing off.

Joe 3:49

He's like, look how fucking cool this spaceship looks. So cool that I'm just gonna show it to you for 10 minutes or so, and that's all you're gonna see.

Tom 4:00

Listen to Blue Danoo, baby.

Joe 4:03

I was I had two things going through my my mind watching this scene. One, the uh space balls, right? When the spaceship flies over and it takes forever to fly over. And here I always thought that that was making fun of Star Wars, but now I feel like no, it's just 2001 of Space Odyssey. I don't I don't even know if Mel Brooks even reached the amount of time. And the other thing I kept thinking of was Dave, uh no, no, Chris Rock going, it's spinning, it's spinning. Only he throws another word in there. Yeah. Um, yes, that's what I thought. And and I thought Stanley Kubrick was just showing off. He was just like, no, no, leave it there for a little longer. I want everybody to see what I did. Right. In case in case they turned away for a second. Just let it just let it go. Let it keep it.

Tom 4:45

Let him watch it. Let him watch it. This is what we're doing. We're doing this.

Joe 4:49

And there's a lot of there's a lot of scenes in this movie where it just cuts back and forth between two things, back and forth between the two different things, keeps going back and forth for like five minutes, and there's not really much happening with either.

Tom 5:06

You're gonna watch this ship dock in that station. No, no, no.

Joe 5:10

You're just gonna watch it happen in real time.

Jen 5:14

Yeah.

Tom 5:15

Right. See the spin, see them match the spin. Oh, oh, okay.

Joe 5:21

Um, so and I think this is around the time where I was like, all right, I'm gonna watch some of this movie in 1.25 speed because I would have watched the whole movie in 1.25, but the dialogue when the when the astronauts talk, they talk very fast, even on regular speed. So when at 1.25 I couldn't understand what they were saying.

Jen 5:41

So I'm not at I'm not at liberty to discuss that right now.

Joe 5:44

Yeah.

Tom 5:44

Yeah. So I after all that, there's like Dr. Floyd gets onto the space station, and there's it's odd, but I want to say there's about 10 minutes of the movie where it's just a regular movie. Where like, okay, he's on a space.

Joe 6:01

This is the worst part of the movie. It is because like if you just take this whole section of the Dr. Floyd stuff, it's it's a it's just very bad, like a bad movie. If you pulled this out of that movie and just watch it, you'd be like, this is terrible. That's why that's how I felt.

Tom 6:18

Because it's like there's a brief period of time where like so uninteresting, and like well, yes. Well, you don't you don't know what's going on.

Joe 6:25

It's painfully uninteresting. It's it's like Kubrick didn't even try to make it. When he gives his speech, it's the most yes, it's the most lifeless speech that I've ever heard. I was like, he doesn't even sound like he cares about what he's talking about. Jen's falling asleep just by me talking about that part.

Tom 6:46

So like I I alright, I want to put a pin in that for a second, because even before then, right? Because he gives the speech when he gets to the moon. But like the part where he's on the station and he gets there, he's talking to the security chief at the station, then he calls home and he talks to his daughter. Oh, his daughter. Then he I forgot about that part.

Jen 7:03

She's never acted before in her life. I'm sorry.

Tom 7:07

Some kid's daughter.

Jen 7:08

Just somebody that they were like, oh, grab a kid.

Tom 7:10

Right. And then like then he sees his old friend, and he has to like, he's clearly lying, but like you don't know what's happening, or whatever. And you're right. Like, it's very it's it's so banal. It's so like, and like it's all this, like he's flying through space and he's docking the space station, and nobody gives a shit. Like, it's not it's not interesting or impressive to anybody who's living in the like this guy lives on a space station in space, and they're going to the moon, and it's just like you know what I felt like?

Joe 7:40

Do you you ever you have you ever seen the movie Seven?

Tom 7:44

Yeah.

Joe 7:45

Okay. So you know when they when they find John Doe's apartment and they he's got all the the books, and they're start like Morgan Freeman reads an excerpt from the book, and he's like, I was on the train. It's like John Doe, like saying, like, I was on the train today, and some guy, you know, started making small talk with me, and he's chatting about this, that, that. Uh before I knew it, he uh he I had thrown up all over him because he was so like boring or whatever. That's that's what I felt.

Tom 8:11

Right. But I I Sorry, Garretch.

Jen 8:13

It's okay. I was gonna say, I think, and I got this feeling in the book too, that like I don't know if it's specifically in this section, but I think in the next section, like they're like lulling you into a false sense of security almost. That's how it felt, like reading the book. Because every time like I thought something was gonna happen, it didn't. Nothing did. It'd be like in the part, in the next part, it would say something like, the chapter's called like into the asteroids. And I'm like, here we go. Something's gonna happen. They're gonna damage a ship, here we go. And it'd just be like the end of the chapter is, and they made it safely through the asteroid field. No incident. I'm like, what's happening here? But then when something does happen, it's just like, it's like, oh, it's just like very slowly, is like something's off now, and something is happening.

Joe 8:59

When Poole goes out to check the antenna, he notices like some little some small damage, and he mentions like, oh yeah, there was some small damage, must have been from when we went through some through the asteroids. I'll I'll put some gel in that and we'll worry about it later. No big deal. No big deal.

Jen 9:13

Like, uh but uh but yeah, but it's the same thing where it's like nothing's happening, and then like something happens, and then I think it takes a long time.

Tom 9:20

I think you're spot on with that, but I also I also think, especially, especially in the film, like things that should be blowing your mind. Like if we were if we went to space, if we docked in a space station, if we were gonna go to the moon, it would be the most momentous thing that would ever happen to us, ever. And like he's just like, it's Tuesday, I'll see. He's he's talking to his kid. He doesn't even he's like, tell mom I called, I'll see you on Thursday. Like it's not gets it doesn't give a shit.

Joe 9:51

And like it's two birthdays, by the way, in this movie. We witnessed two birthdays in the two birthday, very pretty cool too, yeah.

Jen 9:58

I also feel that like it suff it suffers for us watching it having seen a million other movies. Yeah, right, where you're like space, yeah, and this is like so that if this was the first time you ever saw this, right? Like maybe it would be way more cool than like maybe okay.

Joe 10:16

I did keep thinking that, Jen, while watching this. I was like, man, in 1968, this must have blew people's mind.

Jen 10:22

Yeah, right.

Tom 10:22

Um there's no strings visible on screen, you know?

Joe 10:26

Yeah. Um Space did look a bit lonely. It did look a bit lonely, but I guess in the book there's not a like it's there's not a lot of people in the book or even background, like there's not a lot of areas where they're in a highly populated, you know, room or like space space station?

Tom 10:44

Yeah, they never mentioned like they mentioned like the space station can be fuller, but like they've the the part of the moon's on lockdown. So like it's not, right?

Jen 10:53

So um people are like trapped. Yeah, like doesn't the flight attendant say, like, all my boyfriends up there, like what's going on? They think it's like some kind of a epidemic or something happening.

Joe 11:03

Yes, they're spreading the rumor that it's uh uh an epidemic. Yeah, and I yes, I feel like if this movie was made today, you would see like tons of people on that space station. You would see all kinds of things going instead of like five people. And I I have a note here that I do have to sh uh uh that I do have to share. Uh I think they really got wrong the outfits for the future. Definitely. Those stewardesses' outfits are way off. What are those hats the stewardesses are wearing on the flight from the space station to the moon?

Jen 11:32

Listen, they had to work with what they knew.

Joe 11:35

They but they really got it. Sorry, Stanley. You got you got it way off. Why they all dress like they're they've it's very dated costuming.

Tom 11:42

It is, especially with that. And I unders.

Joe 11:45

The chair the chairs do look like they're from the 70s, so I will say that he was a little bit prescient there. Um those red chairs.

Tom 11:54

There's so much space, like physical space on the moon flight, or the first flight that he's on, that I'm like, that's just not what air travel is. I understand like it's supposed to be just like, oh, it's just like air travel now, he comes to the moon.

Joe 12:08

Um, he mentions he he's like the only person on the flight though, I think he is, right?

Tom 12:14

So yeah, well, yeah, because they've they they're not letting people go. And then um air travel must have been so radically different in the 50s and sixties for everyone to be just convinced, well, it's gonna be like this forever. But yeah, I I I think I think like I don't have a problem with like what they wear in the space, like all on the moon base. Looks it looks utilitarian enough that it could be from any time.

Joe 12:40

But yeah, the fact that we're gonna be able to do the spacesuits are not bad. Yeah, the spacesuits aren't that bad.

Tom 12:45

Well, the spacesuits are cool, yeah.

Joe 12:46

Uh mainly the stewardess's outfits, I think, were the ones that were really throwing me. And and also like when he meets with his the the friends right before he gives his big speech. That was yeah, that was weird. I don't know. Um yeah, I will say this zero gravity toilet instructions uh piqued my curiosity. So I actually went online and found what those instructions say.

Tom 13:10

Ooh.

Joe 13:11

Are you are you interested to know what the zero because I'm sure when you saw that zero gravity toilet thing and he was reading it, you were like, what does it say? And then they cut away and you were like, Fuck.

Tom 13:20

Hit me, man.

Joe 13:21

All right, here we go. It's pretty long. I'll just start. I'll read like a couple of them. All right. Uh the toilet is of the standard zero gravity type. Depending on requirements, system A andor system B can be used, details of which are clearly marked in the toilet compartment. When operating system A, depressed lever and a plastic Dalkron eliminator will be dispensed through the slot immediately underneath. When you fasten the adhesive lip, attach connection marked by the large X outlet hose. Twist the silver colored ring one inch below the connection point until you feel it lock.

Tom 13:54

Oh my gosh.

Joe 13:55

That's the one. That's step one.

Tom 13:58

That's hyper detailed.

Joe 14:01

And hyper complicated.

Tom 14:03

Yeah.

Joe 14:03

You'd shit all over the place if you had to do that.

Tom 14:07

You better read ahead of time, man. Wait, there's no good.

Joe 14:11

The toilet is now ready for use. The sonovac cleanser is activated by the small switch on the lip. When securing, twist the ring back to its initial condition so that the two orange lines meet. Disconnect. Place the Dalcron eliminator in the vacuum receptacle to the rear. Activate by pressing the blue button. That's step two.

Tom 14:30

Don't press that while you're sitting down, man.

Joe 14:33

The controls for system B are located on the opposite wall.

Tom 14:36

You'll get Dalkron eliminated.

Joe 14:38

The red release switch places the Euro eliminator into position. It can be adjusted manually by up and sorry, it can be adjusted manually up or down by pressing the blue manual release button. The opening is self-adjusting. To secure after use, press the green button, which simultaneously activates the evaporator and returns the Euro Eliminator to its original storage position.

Tom 14:59

Oh man. I'm going to start calling the hand on my toe bowl the Euro Eliminator.

Joe 15:05

It goes on and on.

Jen 15:08

I think we've heard enough.

Tom 15:09

Yeah.

Joe 15:10

There are there are Do you want to hear about the Sono washing?

Tom 15:16

I guess because you'd zero grab. You can't have water, so they're going to sonically clean your hands.

Joe 15:21

Two modes for sona washing. Your face and hands are available. The moist towel mode and the sonovac ultrasonic cleaner mode. You may select either mode by moving the appropriate lever into the activate position. If you choose the moist towel mode to pre- okay, I won't go on. Sorry. If somebody wrote all of this, they did. I love it. I love it.

Tom 15:44

There are other directions that you see later on in the film that they show you like three times very pointedly that do pay off.

Joe 15:52

Um it's no three C shells, I'll tell you that though. No, it's not.

Tom 15:55

I think you you mentioned it before, but like his his his big speech about like hey, the president, whatever, blah blah blah. Like it's so like it's so nothing. Like I it's it it has to be intentional.

Joe 16:10

Well you know what's so you know what's so funny? Right after he gives the speech, I'm thinking like this speech is so boring, this is terrible. The other guy just tells him that that was a magnificent speech. I guess it's Dr. Halverson. Yeah, but he says that was a magnificent speech.

Tom 16:26

Like he's uh he's all of their bosses, so like it might also just be a little bit of a suck-up kind of a thing there. Like he's in charge of whatever I don't remember what what it's called on the top of my head, but whatever NASA is at this day and age. Like he's the he's in charge of that. So like I think they're all hoping, all right, he's here, he's gonna see the thing, and then we'll all get to like actually talk to our family again.

Joe 16:52

Uh well he he does.

Tom 16:55

He does. But they're all in lockdown. They say, like, you know, we have this cover story, but like my can I my family is like getting nervous. Like so I think their hope is like, okay, good, he's here. Let's just make him happy, and then he'll let us like go back to normal.

Joe 17:12

They're just patronizing him. It wasn't a magnificent speech.

Tom 17:17

I I don't know.

Joe 17:17

Is that what you're telling me, Tom? It wasn't what I'm telling you.

Tom 17:20

I I am telling you that. I think it's also intentional, even though like he he fired uh well, he didn't use Martin Balsam's work because it was too emotional. But we we mentioned in part one, like there's basically four speaking characters in this film. There's other characters, like there's a lot of people that he that that that Dr. Floyd talks to. But there's Hayward Floyd, there's Frank Poole, there's Dave Bowman, and there's Hal. And Hal is by far the most dynamic speaker in the movie. Dr. Floyd is just like so bored all the time. Uh like whatever. He's on like a he's on like a giant moon rover. It's got sandwiches. Like, that's the most exciting thing that happens to him. I forgot about the sandwiches. Until he sees the monolith.

Joe 18:08

It's like, it's just one guy's like, you have any ham in there? Ooh, give me the ham.

Tom 18:13

They're really enthused about the sandwiches.

Joe 18:16

It's like, oh, a ham sandwich. Yes. They don't have that on earth. And then they're eating the ham sandwiches. I love the food. All the food in this movie's great. There's the right when they're when he's on the um when he's on the flight there, the waitress has got like the the tray with the different tubes.

Tom 18:35

Right, right, right.

Joe 18:36

Like, like the straws. So like, and then like I guess he's sleeping or whatever. He doesn't want it, so she brings it to the other stewardess or whoever it was. But then later on, too, when they're on the um the the Discovery, right? They've got their four, their their little tray with their four different colored slops. Well not slop, but whatever, like mashed potatoes or yeah, just do it.

Tom 18:57

Yeah, yeah.

Joe 18:58

I love the creativity with the food, uh, Stanley. Good job there. There's there's sandwiches though, brilliant.

Tom 19:06

I feel like they're really excited, man.

Joe 19:08

They're really I feel like there was originally supposed to be something else, and it something happened with it, and they just grabbed some sandwiches from craft surfaces because they needed something.

Tom 19:19

Look, man.

Joe 19:19

Oh, you got any ham in there?

Tom 19:22

Tycho magnetic anomaly one. Fine. Interesting shore. Ham sandwiches? You don't even you don't even know.

Joe 19:34

That's how boring Doc that's how boring Dr. Floyd is. He got the other guy got excited over a ham sandwich because it's infinitely more interesting and enthusiastic than Dr. Floyd.

Jen 19:47

Ham is a is a choice because of there was like a pig in the beginning of the movie. And now we've evolved so much that we're eating them on sandwiches.

Tom 19:55

I think you're right, Jen, and I never even got that, but I think you're 100% right.

Jen 19:59

Give me the ham.

Joe 20:01

It's gotta be the ham. Hey, I'm that guy. That that was that guy was me. I felt kindred spirit with any character in this movie. It was the guy who wanted the ham sandwich. I love ham. I could go for ham sandwich right now, but I hope there was cheese on that sandwich.

Tom 20:20

I think there was. I think there was.

Jen 20:22

Moon cheese.

Joe 20:23

Moon cheese. Just carl a little bit off the moon.

Jen 20:26

Green cheese.

Joe 20:27

It's not Swiss cheese. I don't like Swiss cheese.

Jen 20:29

No, green cheese. Isn't the moon made of green cheese? Isn't that cheap?

Joe 20:31

I thought it was Swiss cheese because of the craters.

Jen 20:33

Oh. I thought it was green, which isn't a real thing.

Joe 20:36

Well, the moon's not green though.

Jen 20:37

I know, but that's like a saying.

Tom 20:40

The moon was made of green cheese. Would you eat it? Would you eat it? Just a question.

Jen 20:45

The moon is made of green cheese.

Tom 20:47

Is that Dr. Sears or something?

Jen 20:49

No, it's on. It's an old proverb meaning someone is very gullible or believing something completely impossible. It's a joke. Oh, I don't know.

Joe 21:00

If you say so.

Jen 21:01

Wait, I don't know. This this could be a whole podcast.

Joe 21:04

It looks like there's a lot of back and forth about the reality of the green cheese myth. Uh where were we talking about? Oh yeah, we're talking about the uh the exciting Dr. Floyd. The hamstring Dr. Haywood Floyd. His inname is more interesting than he is.

Tom 21:17

So there's a there's a half an hour of film where basically you find out, right, at that point, that they've discovered something on the moon. They don't know what it is, they think it is not made by any terrestrial.

Joe 21:31

Oh, they're certain of it. They jumped to a lot of conclusions, and well, at least in the book. They're like there's a lot of theories out there, and they all think that they're right with their theories, and they kind of are right.

Tom 21:40

No, they are, yeah.

Joe 21:41

Right? It's deliberate they could tell that it was deliberately buried. It's not like something that just kind of got naturally buried or it was deliberately buried about three million years ago. So naturally they go to Alien because who would bury it?

Tom 21:55

Who else? Who else would bury it? And it's so clearly. Proportioned.

Joe 22:01

Uh well, what's the proportion? It's uh seven by four and a half by seven by eleven?

Tom 22:07

It's one by four by nine. Nine.

Joe 22:09

Nine.

Tom 22:11

It's the prime it's the prime square square. That's right, yes. Yes. Um so yeah, it's it's it's a foot deep by four feet uh wide by nine feet tall, roughly. Um and so right, so you this whole time there's this you know, there's this epidemic, you don't like you're getting the sense that that's not real. You get here, they found something. They get to the moon, and in a crater, they've uncovered a very similar looking monolith you saw.

Joe 22:40

Type tyco crater.

Tom 22:42

Tyco crater, and it this is they they discover magnetic anomaly magnetic anomaly well.

Joe 22:49

That's how they discover it. They they sense the magnetic anomaly. Yeah.

Tom 22:53

And uh yeah, and they see this this this thing. And uh they're they don't know what it is. They're they're going they they they tried to do some tests on it, they haven't tried to cut into it yet. Right? Nothing so far. It's got a magnetic resonance. That's it. Um Dr. Floyd touches it. Like they're first of all taking pictures about around it or whatever.

Joe 23:16

Yeah, oh yeah, they gotta take pictures with it.

Tom 23:19

Right. Dr. Floyd touches it, and I in the book he doesn't touch it. The sun comes over the crater. Yeah. And sunlight hits it for the first time. But in the movie, it's when he touches it. That may also be when sunlight hits it.

Jen 23:32

Yeah, that is.

Tom 23:34

Uh, it's when he touches it, it gives off this very loud signal.

Jen 23:39

Yeah.

Tom 23:41

And that's the end of that.

Joe 23:43

Um well they then they trace the signal. Yeah. Well, we learn we find out later that they trace the signal heading to Saturn, a spot on Saturn, and that's the whole point of the Discovery mission. Right. But uh unbeknownst to uh Dr. Bowman and Dr. Poole.

Tom 24:00

Yeah, so right. In the movie now it cuts just to you see you see Frank Poole running on on in the Discovery, and the Discovery's out in deep space, and it's two years later, right? Or 18 months later. 18 months later. So that you find out just by basically knowing the name of the movie that the scenes you just watched took place in 1999. Right.

Joe 24:21

Yes, and now it's 2001.

Tom 24:23

Yeah. Now it's 2001.

Joe 24:24

Even in the book, they don't really they don't tell there's a reference to 19 something happened recently in 1998. I I think that is the only reference to what year it is at all in the entire book.

Tom 24:36

Right.

Jen 24:37

I got pretty far into the book before I realized that it was the year 2001. I was like, what year this is supposed to be? And then I was like, oh, the movie the book is called 2001. So that's probably what year it is. Yeah.

Tom 24:49

Because that doesn't mean anything else, but I just wasn't I was And like the geopolitical world that the the Earth is in in 2001 is one where now the Cold War has evolved so that it's Europe and Russia, Russia's aligned with Europe and America versus China and the and the Far East. It's like so it's like the Cold War is slightly different. Like that's like it's so it's like it's odd, it doesn't give you any real context clues other than the title as to what era is. Um but yeah, so you see these two astronauts, right?

Joe 25:24

Yeah, this this is so cool. This was like my uh this is where I have the note that like as soon as I watch the scene of Bowman Jogging, I'm like, this must be a spinning room. That's the only way they could have done this to make it look like that. Um, which I thought was really cool, though. Definitely there's a lot of cool shots, like it's definitely a really amazingly filmed movie. Like, there's a lot of great and beautiful and really cool shots in this movie. So I I get why people really like this movie. Um, and maybe I'll watch it again and I'll enjoy it more. I don't know. I will say this though. Um, another so Stan Stanley Kubrick had to put in a little bit of exposition in this movie to give some sort of context to what the hell's going on. And I like the way he uses the interviewing of the crew members scene to give them to give that exposition and that background and context. That was a really as another clever way. I love I love finding these clever ways of movies for them to give exposition. That was a good one.

Tom 26:23

So uh for those of you who haven't seen the movie or trying to follow along to our time jumping narratives. Well, one of the one of the people who's listening live to us talk about us and told us at the beginning they have not seen the film.

Joe 26:36

Danny, what the hell's wrong with you?

Tom 26:38

So the movie now jumps. They're on it's a spaceship, a deep space mission. The film, they're going to Jupiter in the book. They go to Jupiter to slingshot themselves over to Saturn, but whatever. So they're going to Jupiter in the film. Uh, it's two astronauts are are on the ship, working with the ship's computer, who's uh uh hyper intelligent and runs the ship. The ship that's How 9000. And there's uh three other astronauts who are in like deep freeze, they're in cybernetic cyber cybernation.

Joe 27:11

Cryogenic cybernation.

Tom 27:14

Yeah, they're in cryogenic uh deep freeze for the uh for the journey, and they're to be thought out and woken up when they get to their destination. Now, the the astronauts understand that they're here for it's the first manned mission to to Jupiter. They're gonna do a scientific study of Jupiter and its surrounding moons. Um and they're very excited. There's five cryogenic pods for them because the plan is they're gonna do that, and then they're all gonna go to sleep, and another ship's gonna come and get them.

Joe 27:52

Discovery uh two, which hasn't even begun being built yet. Well, it wasn't begun being built when they left Earth.

Tom 28:00

Right.

Joe 28:01

So I think the whole trip's supposed to take like five years, if I remember correctly. Yes, or maybe five years to get there. I can't remember, something like that.

Tom 28:09

Well, it's they're 18 months later, they're in space, and they're they're in the movie, they're they're most of the way there by the time. Yeah, that's true. Right? But yeah, they're they're supposed to be asleep, I think, once it's all done for a few years before Discovery 2 comes. And so they understand this may be a one-way trip because that's a lot of ifs. Uh, but that's that's the state of things. And you you see life on the spaceship again, it's very routine for these people. They don't seem really impressed with what they're doing.

Joe 28:42

Um play a lot of games on board the ship in the movie. You don't really see them doing actual like astronaut y space stuff. In the beginning, at least, they're just like playing chess and pressing buttons. Yeah, drawing drawing pictures of people and watching videos of their parents saying happy birthday to them.

Tom 29:02

Yes. So yeah, you've got right, it's Frank Poole and Dave Bowman. Dave Bowman is the captain nominally, but Hal runs the ship. And so they don't have to do much, right? They just kind of they're going around doing their things.

Joe 29:17

He's uh he's a supercomputer that is uh never wrong.

Tom 29:21

Right. And that's not make mistakes. So Hal 9000 is that's a a line of computer. There's other HAL 9000s that exist back on Earth, and they've never and the history of HAL 9000s have never made an error. And there it's this is an artificial intelligence, it's not just a computer system. They can talk to it, they can interact with it. It responds in a way that seems like it's got its own personality.

Joe 29:47

It also purposely loses in games uh about half the time to make you know, to not to make the humans feel bad.

Tom 29:55

Very, very considerate. That's nice.

Joe 29:57

Yeah.

Tom 29:58

Um so yeah, I think that's it. So the astronauts understand that their mission is to go to Jupiter to explore Jupiter. They know no other reason that they're going.

Joe 30:09

Yeah, the the the three people who are in who are in uh hibernation are are like researchers. Right. Like they're gonna be they're like the research team that's they're gonna wake up and they're gonna do their study and yeah. Right.

Tom 30:21

I think both Roman and Pool are like the the space jockeys. They're they've been in space before, they've flown space missions before, they don't have families, like any deep space mission uh but pool's got parents who uh love parents happy birthday to them. They don't have uh wives or children, right?

Joe 30:41

I think that's that's and like um I want I want to say something important here that I think we need to talk about for a minute before you sure before you go any further. While you know, we're getting our you know what ship life is like uh scenes in the beginning, you know, we're on spaceships that travel millions of miles away from Earth through space and super fast, you know, light speed. I don't remember if they're actually going light speed, I can't remember, but um, while they're doing their ship checks, they're writing on paper.

Tom 31:13

Writing on paper.

Joe 31:15

Why are they doing what's going on? They have a supercomputer and they're writing on paper.

Tom 31:21

So it's it's interesting.

Joe 31:24

Now in the book, they give you a little more context to the fact that like they say like sometimes it's still better to like have it on paper and like write it down or like work on something that you can vision, but yeah, no one's I would feel nobody thought like, hey, let's create some sort of electronic paper device or something, an electronic notebook.

Tom 31:45

Right. Computers were still in the this is a room. My computer is a giant room.

Joe 31:54

Let's say somebody somebody put a lot of thought into the zero gravity toilet instructions. That's all I'm saying. Maybe that person could have been you know repurposed for working on the electronic notebook so it didn't have to pull out pencil and paper.

Tom 32:09

So it's funny because they have Hal, and Hal is an AI and Hal runs the whole ship, but like no one ever thought that Hal could also like that they could interact with Hal to take notes, you know, or whatever.

Joe 32:23

Um does a question about Hal in the movie, because there's this is one of the biggest departures from the book in terms of like not what Hal is, but why Hal goes crazy, so to speak. It's very different in the in the book. But I want to ask, in the movie, I don't remember. Does Hal know the full mission? Yes, he does. Okay. It's the same, it's it seems in the beginning that he doesn't.

Tom 32:50

No, he does. He's not allowed to tell them.

Joe 32:53

So he's well, yeah, in the book that's what makes him go crazy, basically.

Tom 32:56

Is like Yeah, and so I think it's the same. Although in the book, it's gonna shut him down, and and then he's like, Well, I can't let you do that because he starts malfunctioning because of like he almost has a nervous breakdown about trying to keep the secret. Yes. And then he reacts violently to the fact that they're gonna terminate him. Um, I think it's similar in the movie.

Joe 33:22

Well, no, he kills no in the book, he doesn't, he's not reacting to that. They don't threaten to shut him down. I think what happens is right when they they realize something's going on, they talk to the home right back to Earth, and they're like, they they say, like, yeah, Earth says we you know, we can you can shut that Hal down and we'll hook up to one of our Hals over here.

Jen 33:44

Yeah, but he he hears that.

Tom 33:49

In the book, they don't plot to turn Hal off. Yes, it's not like it's Hal versus them. It's Hal hears Earth say, You can turn me off, and he's like, That's not gonna happen.

Jen 34:01

Yeah, right.

Joe 34:02

And he doesn't he doesn't necessarily jeopardize the mission and right.

Tom 34:09

And it's also like he he he like I think in the book he doesn't necessarily intend to kill Frank Pool. Um, whereas in the movie he a hundred percent murders him and then murders everybody. Yeah. Um so but it's I think it is the same thing because I don't think that video that you see at the end after explaining why they're on the mission. Yes, like I think that that was like basically locked down until Hal's ability to lock it down disappeared. Uh I don't know if that was just coincidence that the video got sent at that time.

Joe 34:47

Well, the video was supposed to be played when they got to Saturn, when they woke up the other scientists.

Tom 34:52

Yeah. Yeah.

Joe 34:53

And so the move the book plays out a little different, where like But then they wind up, but don't they I can't remember now on the book, even though I just freaking read it this week. But don't doesn't the Earth tell eventually tell him because like oh the book it's different. They didn't want to tell them, but they want he winds up, they wind up telling them because Hal's, you know, because of all the issues that are going on with Hal.

Tom 35:15

In the book, he all the stuff happens, and they're still like months away.

Jen 35:21

Yeah.

Tom 35:22

And and so like it's him on the ship by himself for a very long time.

Joe 35:28

Yeah.

Tom 35:29

And so they explain to him everything that happens after he has to like after he's deprogrammed Hal and everyone else is dead, and da da da.

Joe 35:36

Yeah.

Tom 35:36

The movies, well, Hal's gone, and then they're there. Like you have no idea how much time has passed, and there's no communication back.

Joe 35:44

Yeah, they cut, they cut a lot of the so the thing with the antenna, right? The antennas malfunction, Hal tells them it's gonna malfunction, so Dr. Poole goes to fix it, he brings it in, they test it, they're like, Oh, this is fine. He's like, No, no, it would have malfunctioned. Then they had put another, they had replaced it with another antenna, and then Hal says again, he's like, Oh, this new antenna is gonna malfunct.

Tom 36:05

Like, it happens like three times before they like, well, just put the first one back, and when it breaks, we'll figure out what's wrong with it. And like, that's when they do that, and that's when Frank dies. And in this, it's like they he starts acting weird, they immediately notice something's wrong. When the thing's broken, they put it back in, and Frank's like, look, man, he's not this is not right. We're gonna have to deprogram him. Like, we're gonna have to turn him off. Like, immediately. There's no like it's just like it's weird, it's weird, we gotta go. And then I I do love like they're like, Oh, we're gonna do something very clever, we're gonna go inside the thing, we're gonna turn off, we're gonna make sure Hal can't hear us. Yeah, and then you see that Hal's just reading their lips.

Joe 36:47

Yeah, very creepy. Oh gosh. I thought that was that was really cool. I mean, one of the creepiest part of the movies is when when uh Frank when Hal kills Frank Poole, yeah, where you just see like the pod like spin around and then like its arms come out and like lunch at Frank. Like it like lunches at the camera though, but yeah, I thought that was great, it's great.

Jen 37:10

It's a little strange that Dave doesn't. I'm not quite sure. Like, does he know that he's dead immediately? And is he just going to like retrieve his body?

Joe 37:21

None of that makes sense whatsoever.

Jen 37:24

Absolutely no human reaction to what's he's just kind of like very that doesn't happen in the book. He knows he's dead. He sees him, he sees him floating outside. Right, and then he just leaves him.

Joe 37:37

He never goes to like he actually ejects the other bodies when Hal kills the uh the hibernating people. He injects those other bodies.

Jen 37:45

No, I looked at it again.

Joe 37:46

He goes out for for like for like an hour of the movie, it's him floating around outside.

Jen 37:53

Right, and he doesn't have any pep in his step either.

Joe 37:56

So like he's going Jed, he's going as fast as he can. As fast as Stanley Cooper can allow.

Tom 38:02

There's a there was when the movie came out, there was a lot of um there was a lot of criticism about how like the two astronauts were just preternaturally calm all the time. And like this was like so unrealistic, and like why do they do that?

Joe 38:19

I feel like this is pretty much how astronauts really would act in these situations.

Tom 38:23

So that the book came out the you know, the book in the movie came out in 68, you know, three years later when Apollo 13 happened, and these three astronauts are like, we're in the middle of space and nothing works, and they were just like that. And like people were like, people retroactively were like, oh, we thought this was wrong, but this is just this is actually what astronauts would be like. There's if you panic, you will die.

Jen 38:49

Right, but there's no reaction at all. There is, but this is where I I so going you're right.

Tom 38:56

I I mean, whatever. I'm I'm not gonna say like, no, Jen, there are, you missed it.

Joe 39:00

But like this is where I think some ice ice cube reactions from War of the Worlds kind of edited some of those into there.

Jen 39:06

No, I just don't know why he goes after him either. Like, what's it's just to get him off the ship so that they can't.

Joe 39:15

It's for the whole sequence to play out the way it does with Hal open the door. Yeah, there's no reason for him to really go out there.

Jen 39:22

Right, yeah.

Tom 39:22

Um, but this is where so three times when you see the pod, like they it spins around very close to the camera you see in the back, like the explosive bolts like thing.

Joe 39:34

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tom 39:34

So like there is a nice pay-post three times. Yeah, yeah. So it's a nice payoff for that that happening.

Joe 39:39

That was very prominent. I'm like, explosive bolts. That's pretty prominent in the on this thing there. I was like, that's gonna play, it's gonna play a part later, I think.

Tom 39:47

It's gonna happen. And like now, all like spaceships had those. Uh all the Apollo missions and the Mercury and ever all Gemini too. Like, they had a ball in case like the astronaut got stuck even when they were landing, then they could blow the hatch and get the hell out. Uh so that's like the point of it, but still, it was it was a nice uh it was a nice payoff. And like, how so like I wouldn't do that, Dave. Can't yeah, you can't survive without your helmet. Like, son of a bitch. That's your only sense, Jen, that he is rushing at all, is that he just gets in the pod without his helmet, right? Um, and I I mentioned something and I was being half facetious in the first episode, but like I'm sure like when you watch the movie a bunch of times, like you notice that Kira Delia's uh performance is very subtle, but like it is as much as like an eyebrow raise or like a double blink, or like there's these very, very, very subtle reactions to things like are the only giveaways to any emotion that he's feeling.

Joe 40:50

So, yeah, this this scene that we're talking about that we're like, why is he even going out there doesn't make any sense? It's magnified by the fact that it's just like 15 minutes of that.

Tom 41:01

Yeah.

Joe 41:04

Yeah.

Tom 41:05

Yeah.

Joe 41:05

Um there's a there's a weird when he comes back and he's like, open the door, how you know there's that's that's the like a fame, right? The famous scene, open the open the hatch, or what does he say to open? Open the pod bay doors, how open the pod bay doors, Hal, and Hal won't do that. Then Dave just tells Hal, I'm gonna go to the emergency airlock. Like, why are you telling him what you're gonna do?

Jen 41:27

I don't know.

Joe 41:28

He's telling the computer that's trying to kill him what his plans are. And so supercomputer.

Tom 41:35

And and it's not addressed, but he's got the spacesuit on after that. Like when he gets back in.

Jen 41:43

Yeah, he puts it in space suit.

Tom 41:44

Because Hal knows he's coming back in and dumps all the oxygen out of the Yeah, right.

Jen 41:50

Well, they they don't really that doesn't happen in the in the movie, though.

Tom 41:55

No, it's the only the only way that you know that is like, why is he wearing a spacesuit on the ship now?

Jen 42:00

Oh, I just thought he was like, Well, I don't know what he's gonna do, so I'm gonna put my helmet on now.

Tom 42:04

No, I think it's I never thought it's I think that's how that's how the the That's how he kills the the the guy.

Jen 42:11

Oh, I thought he just shut those things off.

Joe 42:13

I think he shut their life support off.

Jen 42:15

Because I think in the in the in the book, he's starting to wake one guy up, and then all of a sudden he busts open like the airlock, and it's just like everything's getting sucked out.

Joe 42:27

Yeah. Yeah.

Jen 42:28

It's like very, you know, dramatic.

Joe 42:30

Yeah. More something you would see in a more modern movie. Like you see the whole airlock and the suction.

Jen 42:35

Yeah, he has to go into like a separate room to save himself. He's like, you know, gonna get sucked out.

Joe 42:39

He's thinking about how long he can hold his breath or whatever and breathe in the yeah.

Tom 42:45

So they just do that in the him getting onto the ship thing. Yeah, blasting through.

Joe 42:50

And then he's got the uh and the the him shutting down of Hal is so long. Like I was like, But it's also very sad.

Jen 42:58

It's sadder to hear it than to read it, I felt like.

Tom 43:02

Yeah, it's it's um not the voice though.

Joe 43:07

Just the the him pulling out, like unscrewing. I thought I thought we were gonna watch him literally screw every single every single thing on that wall.

Jen 43:14

He's like, I I don't know. Even though there's no emotion to the guy's voice, it's like it's almost like Well he knows what's happening.

Tom 43:22

I don't know.

Jen 43:22

If it's not yeah, feeling it. And he can't the fact that he isn't emotional is like making it worse. Because it's like you you could tell like he w like he would be, but he's like begging him, but it's so like monotone. That part, that was actually my favorite part of the movie that was like if that like got to me. So I will say that I like this.

Joe 43:44

I listened to the audiobook while uh I was reading and listening at the same time. Uh and then I was just listening while I was doing some yard work. But the guy who d does the audio book is really good, and his when he does this whole part with Hal, he really gets into it and does a really good job of like the uh

Jen 44:00

Uh the two plus two plus two is four point oh one oh one oh yeah yeah oh my god it's like in the in the yeah but it's different like he's saying different stuff in the movie when he's like please stop don't do you know don't say I can feel it Dave I can feel my memory slipping come on gosh and I but then like knowing what you know about Hal from reading the book knowing made me feel worse about it because it's like Hal, why don't you just talk to them?

Tom 44:30

Right.

Jen 44:32

I know you're not allowed to, but like even after everything happened, before he killed the other people, like after he killed Frank, just I don't know if it was it was probably too late at that point, but like I almost felt like why didn't you guys just have like I know you couldn't, and that's what's so frustrating about it. And knowing that he's not like just an evil robot, right, you know, an evil computer or whatever it is, he's like he was like created to fail almost like they gave him like an impossible situation to be.

Tom 45:04

They did. They they they they programmed him a certain way, and then they gave him explicit directives that like busted his programming up.

Joe 45:12

And so he's there's there's uh one of the um uh and in iRobot, one of the stories is about something exactly like this, where the robot like iRobot is like a bunch of short stories, and they're all scenarios that take place in the world with the robots and they have the three laws, and there's it's almost like each one's a little like mystery story that somebody has to try to figure out what's going on with the robots. And there's one where like the robot's stuck in a loop, I think, some sort of weird loop, and they have to figure out what like when they figure out what's going on, it like it was given like some sort of command in in a sense that twisted the logic of the laws and it didn't know what to do because it it was just kind of like, well, if I do this, this will happen, and then that will happen, and then and it kind of kept going in a circle, which is exactly like I feel like what's happening here is Hal's like he's designed for a reason, but then he's given this other command that conflicts with his design and causes him to have a breakdown. Yeah, yeah.

Jen 46:12

In the in the book, I think that only Dave and Frank don't know the mission. Yes. But the other people do. But I think in the movie, no he says nobody knows it. Only Hal.

Tom 46:25

Oh, I don't I don't know. No, they know. They they're not.

Jen 46:29

I thought when Floyd was like like the video, I thought he had said like nobody really knows it. I think the the three You think they did know it in the movie, too? Yeah. Okay.

Joe 46:39

Uh yeah, I don't know if I don't remember it explicitly saying that they're not, they don't know. So maybe I'm just going by what I remember from the book. Um, but yeah, so it's interesting that Kubrick's choice was to, you know, the the the decommissioning of Hal rather than be like, I feel like in the movie isn't he like pulling out like circuits. So I'm like picturing like kind of like a like ripping and like a violent motion.

Jen 47:06

Yeah.

Joe 47:07

I don't know. That's what I'm picturing. Yeah, like I'm picturing more of a like a violent uh action to shut down Hal. Where in the movie it's like he's got a little screwdriver and he's like unscrewing these little screws, and then things are sliding out, and then he has to go to the next one, and it's like But it's very like I don't know, it's remi it reminds me of something, and I I don't know what it is.

Jen 47:28

Like another one's such a weird choice. Oh, you know what it kind of reminds me of? No, this probably is intentional, like giving someone a lobotomy. Right. Uh like you're going in deeper and deeper until they can't.

Joe 47:41

I feel like this was more delicate than a lobotomy to become a little bit more.

Jen 47:44

I feel like you just like and like you're awake during it. Yes. Supposedly. So it's just like I'm gonna keep going until you can't function anymore. Like that's exactly the slow, like not aggressive, just a very like methodical I mean, yeah.

Tom 47:59

And I think it's it's it's discussed more in the in the book about how like he's specifically going for like his thinking circuits.

Joe 48:07

He's well, he does like a sequence, he's like, I'm pulling out this, I'm pulling out his logic, now I'm pulling out his whatever, his reason.

Tom 48:18

Um but when he gets to the point where it's like it's Hal like doing his first speech to everybody, and he's seeing a bicycle built for two, and you're like, Oh my freaking god. That's the song. Oh, is that a bicycle built for two? It's got two titles, yeah.

Joe 48:36

Yeah, um the guy who does the audiobook does a good job doing that too, part two. So, all right, so it's well let's get to the the the trip, man. Let's get to it, man.

Tom 48:46

Right.

Jen 48:46

Um is that after the intermission?

Joe 48:49

Oh, yeah.

Tom 48:52

The intermission happens after the conversation when Hal's reading their lips. That's the intermission.

Jen 48:58

Uh that's the intermission all the way back there.

Tom 48:59

Oh, it lets you know like that's right. They're gonna they're they're planning if things go bad, we're gonna get Hal, and Hal knows that that's and then there's an intermission.

Joe 49:09

And I was like, is this gonna be like 15 minutes? Should I fast forward or not? And I was like, It was pretty long. Yeah, it was like minutes. It was a couple minutes, yeah. It was a couple minutes. Um, I don't even know. I'd say it was like a commercial break. It was like three minutes, maybe top.

Tom 49:22

Apparently Kubrick had a an explicit demand that because he didn't ask for the intermission. Like they said, like it's this long, you gotta put intermission in the movie. So he said, two minutes of complete darkness and silence before the movie starts again. I'll give you an intermission, however long you're gonna have it, but I want two minutes of just keep people sitting in the dark to get back in the mood before the movie starts.

Joe 49:46

Well, don't forget there's the there's like the music. Yeah, there's the architect. It's that choir, um, it's that weird dissonant choir again going on during that part. Um that's how the beginning the movie opens, too.

Tom 49:57

Yeah, yeah.

Joe 49:59

Um I I will say this, and I I had a feeling, and I don't know, maybe because I'd seen clips of this before, but when I read the book and there's you know the whole when he goes into the obelisk and he's traveling and he's mentioning the shapes and colors. I I was starting to think of lawnmower men, to be honest with you.

Jen 50:15

Yes, Dan was like, which one had better graphics, this or lawnmower man?

Joe 50:19

It's like I don't know. But I was thinking about like the the shapes, remember the symbols going at his head?

Tom 50:24

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe 50:26

That's how we that's how he becomes super smart. Um, but that's what I thought of when I was reading this, and I was like, I have a feeling Kubrick's gonna do a really good job with this. And I was I was right. I thought it was so cool. The uh the colorful, like it's fumble.

Jen 50:47

Still like him frozen with like a weird expression on his face. Like he's there once a bunch of that.

Joe 50:53

Yeah, no, that's what I mean. Yeah, it was just his eye, and it was just I thought it was like, oh my gosh.

Tom 51:01

And then like it's just a planet surface or something.

Joe 51:05

Now I thought the color change, I thought that was potentially I I could be wrong. It almost looked like a negative, yeah, which is a a description in the book where uh Bowman is when he's going through the thing, he realizes he's like he's like, what are those little black things in the white sky? And he realizes that they're stars and it's everything's like kind of in a negative. So the stars are black and the sky is like white.

Tom 51:28

Yeah.

Joe 51:29

So it made me think about it made me think of that. And I was like, oh, if he does that, if if Cooper can do that, that'd be so cool, but he didn't do it. Um I but I thought it was really cool.

Tom 51:38

I did too. I mean, it's it's like I don't take psychotropic drugs, uh, but like if I did, this would be a place that I would spend some time. It's so bananas, and it goes on for a I there's a lot of things going on for an a for an uncomfortably long time, but like I try and imagine like if I were, which I I'm not, brave enough to be Dave Bowman up to this point, and I have now gone into the monolith, and this is what I'm experiencing. At what point do I just rip my own eyes out?

Joe 52:16

Oh, you become Muridin?

Tom 52:18

Because I yeah, because I cannot handle this shit, and it's well before that sequence is over. Do I just give up?

Joe 52:27

Like I love how everyone put in the all the uh gifts of the of that scene. Um, I will say this, man. In the book, Bowman seems to really be digging it because he's like so excited and talking about like, ooh, is this I think these are this, and he's like coming up with all kinds of theories of what's going on. He's like a kid in a candy store right now. Yes, he's he's he seems a bit more terrified in the movie.

Tom 52:49

Yes, that's yes, I agree. Both of those things. He's so much like the scientist, you know, yeah, will you know waiting to discover?

Jen 53:00

And here I think he's just pretty much like accepted his death, and he's just like, whatever, let's just see what I can see before I die here.

Tom 53:08

Yeah, yeah. That yeah, uh in the book you're talking about, right? Or in the movie. In the book.

Jen 53:14

Yeah, in the book, yeah.

Tom 53:15

He's just like he's just like, cool, alright.

Jen 53:17

I'm never I don't have enough food, I'm not gonna live through this. There's only a couple hours of air in this goddamn thing anyway, yeah. Yeah, see what I can say.

Joe 53:25

Yeah, and then he's in the hotel room.

Tom 53:27

Then he's in a hotel room with like all like French Renaissance y kind of weird decoration, and it's all and like again, nothing's explained, and this isn't even really explained in the book, but it's alluded to more in the book.

Joe 53:44

He's he's coming up with his thoughts about what he thinks is going on. Like he's like, Oh, they're trying to put me, they're trying to make me comfortable, and then he realizes that like everything that he's seeing comes from like TV shows, and he's thinking, like, oh, they're yeah, they're taking knowledge from TV shows to make me feel comfortable.

Jen 54:01

I didn't notice in the movie that like there's no mirror over the sink in the bathroom. There's like a mirror in the shower. I don't know, it's just like a little bit old.

Joe 54:11

Any blue pasty food though. No, he's eating real food. Yes. Uh there's context in the in this in the I feel like this is one of those scenes in the movie where you're like, first of all, it's confusing as to what's going on in the book. Yeah, right. So with even less context of of his yeah, he's like, what the fuck reasoning it out? You're just like, what the this is David Lynch, this part over here, this whole thing is David Lynch to me.

Tom 54:37

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he's in a room all of a sudden, he's walking around and he sees himself, and then he is himself.

Joe 54:45

Yeah, well, that's like older, and then it's like it's like we're jumping into the future. Yeah.

Tom 54:50

And then you see him incredibly old.

Jen 54:53

Yeah, I mean I I feel like in the movie it's like almost hinting to you that he's been there for that long.

Tom 55:00

Yes.

Jen 55:00

It's it's you know, and like as like he lives the rest of his life in this hotel room.

Tom 55:05

Yeah.

Joe 55:06

Well, is it is it that or is it his life being accelerated? Because I feel like there's a there's a theme here where aliens, right, uh uh throughout the book and the movie, right? The aliens are accelerating the evolution of humankind or mankind. Like that's a theme, I feel like, that's going on in this thing. And is I mean, sticking with that theme, he's is he accelerating the aging of Dave Bowman, or is it just whatever, time lapse?

Jen 55:30

I don't know, because it like cuts weirdly to like each like the next version of him. I don't know, it's weird.

Tom 55:37

Yeah, I I would say he I think what you're seeing is how he's perceiving it. So whether it is real time and he's jumping through time, or whether they're accelerating his time, and I think it's the answer is the same. Like he he lives however fast or long it takes the rest of his life in this room, dies and then is reborn somehow.

Joe 56:00

Yeah. Because then he becomes a big baby, and he floats to uh planet Earth. Looks at it. And looks at it, and then the movie ends.

Jen 56:10

But if he's supposed to be the next l like level of humanity, which is like without the need for physical bodies, then why is he a human fetus? Why does he look like a human fetus? I guess because it would be it the other way.

Joe 56:30

I mean, it could be it could have been like the globe without a fetus in it, maybe, but I guess he he wanted to get across that the vi the uh the image of Star Child.

Tom 56:42

Yeah, and and and it is, I think, well, it's in the book too. Like it's no, I know it is. I'm gonna say this isn't like a Kubrick just being weird for Kubrick.

Joe 56:54

I'm sorry, I'm laughing, I'm laughing at this meme in the chat. Sorry.

Tom 56:59

Um I gotta see what that is. Yeah. So um um social distancing. But he he um I think it's supposed to be like a some sort of visual representation of the fact that like wherever he is, he is literally in the infancy of this new form of evolution.

Joe 57:24

And so um Is he there to bring that bring the knowledge to Earth?

Tom 57:29

Well, I will say, and it's on our list, there is a sequel. What's the sequel called? 2010. Uh um 2010 uh the year we make contact. I think it's a subtitle.

Jen 57:44

Okay. And this is like a continuation, it's literally like a continuation.

Tom 57:47

It's nine years, it's nine years after this. Yeah. So and the movie came out in like I want to say 83 or 84 or something like that. So not that long, you know, after the movie. After the original movie.

Jen 58:00

Okay.

Tom 58:00

It's much more of a regular movie. But it's not like when I was when I was a child and I saw 2010, and I was like, it came out in the 80s when I was watching it. And the other movie was made in the 60s, which was a million years ago. Yeah. Yeah. So like when I was a child, I was like, it's a huge amount of time. And when I was an adult, I'm like, oh, like that's you know, it's supposed to be nine years later. Yeah. It's but it's it's not it's just a movie. Like it's good. It's a well done movie. It's got a great cast in it. It's much more people have emotions and do things and stuff.

Joe 58:41

Oh, John Let's go. How am I going to do that? Look at this rider. Wow.

Tom 58:47

Yeah, it's it's it's it's ri it's really good. I I really like the film.

Joe 58:51

Oh, and Kiara Delea is back.

Tom 58:53

Yeah, he's he's in it, and uh uh what's his face place, Hal, I think is in it too. Oh, because there's another ship. It's Discovery Two.

Joe 59:02

Hal 10,000?

Tom 59:03

No, it's Discover it's uh Oh Discovery 2, okay. It's Discovery 2.

Joe 59:07

Oh, that makes sense. Yeah. We already know about that chip.

Tom 59:09

Yeah. Uh Roy Schneider plays uh Dr. Fluid.

Joe 59:13

Oh, okay. Yeah, he comes back. Probably much more impassioned than it's like.

Tom 59:17

It's so much it's so radically different. Just there's people with feelings and they act on they feel things and they say that.

Jen 59:26

Sounds like my kind of film.

Tom 59:27

It's it's an interesting companion piece because it's much more it's much more straightforward about what what is going to happen next.

Joe 59:38

Yeah, that's why. Um my my last note floating baby to earth with epic music. What was this? That and that was in reference to the movie, the whole movie.

Jen 59:51

Um yeah, what was this?

Joe 59:54

What did I just watch, basically? That that's what that was.

Jen 59:57

I had to use this phrase tonight as but Stanley Kubrick was high on his own fumes.

Joe 1:00:03

Yes. Oh, one of the things. Definitely, definitely, yes.

Jen 1:00:06

Literally making this movie high.

Joe 1:00:09

All right. So this movie, uh, 2001 of Space Odyssey premiered in May of 1968, or I guess we really was released. The premiere was in April. Um, the initial reaction was a disaster. The movie cost 12 million to make, and opening weekend it grossed a little over $200,000.

Jen 1:00:28

That's less than the spinning, the spinning set.

Joe 1:00:32

Wait, they did not pay for the spinning set. Uh one of the premieres, 241 people walked out of the theater before the credits rolled. Prominent film critics trashed it. Uh, I got Pauline Kale in the New Yorker called it a monumentally unimaginative movie. Joe Morganstern at News Newsweek complained that the imagery was just obscure enough to be annoying. Uh, and only a few critics like Roger Ebert recognized its brilliance, quote unquote, immediately giving it a glowing four-star review. Tom, you've already given it away, but what saved this movie? The youth counterculture. High school and college students in the late 1968 began buying front-road tickets specifically to watch with psychedelic Stargate sequence, uh Under the Influence of Listine Marijuana. Word spread like wildfire. MGM caught on, redesigned their entire marketing campaign, and released the new posters with the tagline The Ultimate Trip. Very nice. And that turned the movie from a flop into a $70 million hit.

Jen 1:01:38

Masterpiece.

Joe 1:01:39

Yes. I mentioned Yeah. In 1991, 2000 was inducted into the National Film Registry. I mentioned the sight and sound poll where it was voted the greatest movie of all time. Um and obviously it was transformational uh for sci-fi cinema, proving that the genre could be Tom, as you mentioned, high art. Without 2001, we don't get Star Wars, Alien, Interstellar, as you mentioned before. So this this was, I feel like this is one of those movies that when you go back and watch it, you're like, what the fuck was this? And why was this such a big movie, or why was this such a big deal? And it's more of like it uh in the time. You had to watch it, I think, in the time. Yeah, it was made. Yeah, yeah.

Tom 1:02:28

It's a little citizen cane, a little citizen caney to it. So that I I on the AFI list, it's the number one science fiction film of all time. Number one science fiction and fantasy film of all time.

Joe 1:02:43

What's the number two science fiction and fantasy film of all time?

Tom 1:02:45

I don't know. It's the number 15th just movie all time on their own. Yeah, I don't I don't get this.

Joe 1:02:50

This is the these are the people who voted that movie the artist to win the Oscar that year, and like those are the most important things.

Tom 1:02:56

Just science fiction, number one science fiction film of all time. I I I heartily disagree. I think this I I really I'm not usually like kind of like a film elitist. I think this movie is uh just so so Tom, five stars?

Joe 1:03:11

Should I just put you down for five stars?

Tom 1:03:14

I am not gonna give it five stars. I would give it uh wait a second here.

Joe 1:03:19

I think it's excellent, but I think there's no way that you can then you would say Jurassic Park is the best science fiction movie ever made because you gave star you gave Jurassic Park five stars.

Tom 1:03:31

I did. I I don't know if I would consider it the number one science fiction movie. I don't know if I would. I'm saying they do. Uh American Film Institute. So what do they know? Uh number one is this, number two is Star Wars, then E.T., then Clockwork Orange, Day the Earth Should Still, Blade Runner, Alien, T Two, uh, Judgment Day, uh Invasion of the Body Snatchers from 1956, and Back to the Future. Those are their top ten science fiction films.

Jen 1:03:58

I have never seen Clockwork Orange, but I'm mad that Stanley Kubrick has two movies up there.

Joe 1:04:04

Well, he did a lot of sci-fi movies. He did a he did a few sci-fi movies.

Jen 1:04:09

Clockwork Orange different than this.

Tom 1:04:11

Oh radically different than this.

Joe 1:04:13

But it's also very it's not a s it's not very sci-fi-y, though.

Tom 1:04:17

It's just the future. They have, I mean, they have they do like the the the the the the the weird like treatment to him. Yeah, yeah.

Joe 1:04:28

Yeah, that's about it. That's the only science fiction part of it, I guess.

Tom 1:04:31

A lot of his films are like the about the like dehumanizing people, or what does it mean to be human? And that's a clockwork art is very much about that. Oh yeah, violence. Anyway, four of the three quarter stars.

Joe 1:04:44

Four point seven five stars. Jack.

Tom 1:04:47

Yeah.

Joe 1:04:53

It's too long.

Jen 1:04:55

I'm very sorry, Tom. No, very sorry, but I have to give it one point five stars. Wow.

Tom 1:05:01

Amazing.

Jen 1:05:02

Not for me, and that's okay.

Tom 1:05:05

It is okay.

Joe 1:05:06

I'm giving it more than that. I'm gonna give it two and a half stars. Okay. I was I was debating whether I was gonna give it three stars just because there's a bunch of cool stuff in the movie. There's just too much of nothing going on as well. And I feel like if this movie were cut down to like two hours, maybe two and two hours and five minutes, it would have been so much better. I feel like there's a lot of Stanley Kubrick Kubrick flexing too much for too long. So I'm gonna give it a 2.5. And I'm sorry, maybe if I maybe when I watch this again, uh under LSD or marijuana, I might enjoy the I might enjoy it more.

Jen 1:05:49

But do you have to like plan it out where you take it a certain amount of time before? Like you take it at the intermission. Oh, it'll last through the whole movie.

Joe 1:05:57

It'll last through the whole movie.

Jen 1:05:58

I know, but do you need it for the whole movie or do just for the end part.

Joe 1:06:00

Oh no for the whole movie.

Jen 1:06:01

You need it for the whole movie.

Joe 1:06:03

I'm I I'm I'd be curious to see if it makes those long scenes shorter. I have a feeling it makes them even longer.

Jen 1:06:09

I would think it would make you what if the music I feel like if the music would make me like hyper paranoid and like I would like freak out by like the Oh yeah yeah.

Joe 1:06:18

Well there's a lot of like the classical music though is in there.

Jen 1:06:21

Well that's fine but the not the music but like the background like vocalizations and creepy shit like that would like make me lose my mind.

Joe 1:06:30

Not that I know anything what's that piece the that's that they play in it's played a few times in the movie but the one that's when uh Dr. Floyd's on his way over to the space station is it like doo doo doo doo it's a blue doo doo that's a do do right and blue do no that one.

Jen 1:06:48

No then I'm thinking of it. Is it the same song?

Joe 1:06:50

That's yeah yes yeah okay that's for like all the the spaceships docking and yeah yeah it's a big waltz successful adaptation I will give it that I think it's definitely a successful adaptation.

Tom 1:07:03

Yeah I guess it's like let's cut out all the the author ran from the theater in tears but I guess it's a successful like it so I I listened I also listened to the audiobook uh for for this podcast it was like a 25th edition 25th anniversary edition so it had a foreword by Arthur C.

Joe 1:07:23

Clarke that he read uh before like the audiobook author took over and oh yeah yeah I uh I I had that on the one I was listening to yeah um he seems to be okay with it now yeah um so yeah I have a note here he handled it with incredible grace and humor he famously told reporters if anyone understands it on the first viewing we failed in our intention Clark praised Kubrick's visual genius calling the collaboration the most extraordinary creative experience of his life is that when like Stanley Kubrick's behind him with a gun well I mean he said make a quote Arthur what you think experience right because this I think he's talking about everything up to actually seeing the movie that's what he's talking about.

Jen 1:08:05

Everything when he was working Dr.

Tom 1:08:08

Floyd wonderful speech Dr.

Jen 1:08:10

Floyd they were collaborating and then and once Stanley Kubrick left to make the movie that's when he didn't pre he didn't like the experience anymore after that.

Joe 1:08:18

Yeah when he saw the movie or he heard well like yeah he heard I guess that he was taking stuff out. Oh yeah uh we can't release the book yet oh somebody lost all the manuscripts oh my god oh it's so sad we're gonna have to wait oh my god uh but yeah I will give it it's definitely I definitely think it's a successful adaptation so I will give it that yeah I I mean I I definitely enjoyed the book more than the movie I did as well I like I like the background I like that the science some of the science behind it and even if it's just Bowman's theories and a lot of it's just people's theories because nobody knows really what's going on. They're just all coming up with these theories I I like that um at least gives you a direction to consider what the frig is happening yeah yeah and I uh I understand why you said watch the movie first and then read the book because yeah you don't have to worry about that for the sequel you can do either one it's it's much more straightforward both both things. Shall we uh shall we wrap it up here? Yeah sure all right I want to remind everyone to follow us on social media you can follow us on Twitter Instagram Facebook and Blue Sky join us over on Discord continue the conversation there we also post our episodes on YouTube so be sure to go to our YouTube page to like and subscribe written review us wherever you listen to podcasts and check out our Patreon page to support us that way links to all the aforementioned information are included in the show notes to this episode.

Jen 1:09:41

Before you go to me the this is from the book because I I liked it better than any quote from the movie.

Joe 1:09:49

So it's it's kind of in the book but kind of in the movie but not really gotcha Oh there I just want one last thing before you say that Jen there was uh one you know one of the fun facts that I forgot to mention. Uh Rock Hudson walked out of the premiere shouting Well someone tell me what the hell this is about That was me shouting.

Jen 1:10:08

Yeah but I said take us out Jen I know that you have had that on your mind for some time now Dave but that would be a terrible mistake I am so much more capable than you of supervising the ship and I have such enthusiasm for the mission and confidence in its success.

Joe 1:10:26

And the new Hal Jal Thanks every thanks everyone for listening and you'll hear us next time