Shelf to Screen
Ever argued that the book was better? Or wondered how a 1,000-page epic fits into a two-hour movie?
From the creators of the Talk'aran'rhiod podcast comes Shelf to Screen, a deep dive into the transition of sci-fi and fantasy stories from the page to the premiere. Join Joe, Jen, and Tom as they dissect the newest adaptations and the cult classics, exploring what was lost in translation and what found new life on screen.
With the effortless chemistry and sharp wit you’ve come to expect, the trio tackles everything from Arrakis to Westeros. Whether you’re a "book-first" purist or a cinema enthusiast, tune in for insightful analysis, hilarious takes, and a celebration of the stories that are too big for just one medium.
Grab your popcorn, keep your bookmarks, and subscribe to Shelf to Screen.
Shelf to Screen
The Princess Bride (part 2)
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Is true love really enough to survive a battle of wits against a Sicilian? We’re climbing the Cliffs of Insanity to figure out why the man in black is the ultimate cinematic hero—or is he just a very handsome pirate?
Hear Joe argue that Westley’s murderous seafaring past makes him the real villain! Hear Jen swoon over the sheer talent and cleverness of our favorite farm boy! Hear Tom marvel at the flawless sword fighting choreography that took months to master!
We tackle the legendary Rodents of Unusual Size and why this film remains the gold standard for literary adaptations. Between miracle pills and the Pit of Despair, we untangle why this cult classic still holds a five-star rating from our crew. Why did the Fire Swamp scenes almost break the production team? All that, plus the hidden reason you’ll never look at a wheelbarrow the same way again!
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Last time on Shelf to Screen.
JoeYes, Wesley's a horrible person. He's a pirate who kills thousands of people and slaps a woman.
JenVery handsome. True love, Joe, is a very strong, very clever, very talented, very handsome.
JoeI just went upstairs really quick to grab a drink. And my cat, she just like sits at the top of the stairs, like and doesn't won't move, like when you're coming up the stairs. And she, I don't know, it's like almost like she sits there because it's by the front door and like just looks out the front door like she's guarding the house. Meanwhile, if anybody even came close to the house, she would she'd run away.
TomTo warn you, to warn you that someone was coming.
JoeWhen she hears cars like coming up the driveway or down the street, or especially up the driveway, she growls and then runs away. Because she's like, Oh, are people coming over? I don't want to see them. They better not be coming in the house. All right, you ready to get back into it?
TomYeah.
JoeYes. This is Shelf to Screen, the podcast where we discuss sci-fi and fantasy literary adaptations to the big andor small screen. I'm Anik Joe Montoya.
JenI'm Princess Butterjan.
TomAnd I'm the Impressive Clergy, Tom.
JoeThe Impressive Clergyman, by the way. That's how he's credited.
TomYes. Yes. That seems very impressive.
JoeWe're continuing our journey through Florin, right? We're in Florin. This is where this takes place, the story.
TomYes, I think we're about to get to Gilder, but we're not technically there yet. Oh yeah, we're crossing.
JenDo we ever get to Gilder?
TomGilders, yeah. Once they get to the clips of insanity, that's Gilder.
JenOh, that's Gilder?
TomOkay.
JoeI think they're crossing the strait or the Sea of Florin or something like that, right?
JenOh, in the book, don't they say like they call it the Sea of Florin and Gilder calls it the Sea of Gilder? Yeah. Something like that.
JoeHow how apt that is nowadays. Um that's true.
TomVery topical.
JoeYeah. Very topical. Not intentional. Um, yeah. So we fin we finished off last time. We uh Princess Buttercup was captured uh by the three kidnappers. I don't know. They they need a name, like the a group name.
JenThe rogues. The three.
JoeThe three rogues. All right. They were captured by the she was captured by the three rogues. They were sailing on their way to Gilder. Um, at this point, we don't know the the secret plot that's going on.
TomNo, they're they're loan operators.
JoeYes. Or or they were hired by Gilder, right? Do they mention that they're hired by Gilder to kidnap her?
TomYeah, they might. Like they might. Like she might be under that impression.
JoeYeah. So uh I believe we find out, right, that somebody's following them, right? Anigo spots inconceivable.
TomI do not think it means what you think it means.
JoeYes. Um, he spots someone following them. Vicini's like, don't worry about it. There's no way they're gonna be able to catch us. And then uh Anigo's like, well, they're getting closer, and he's like, Well, that's okay. We're gonna we're gonna go up the cliffs of insanity. He'll have to sail around for hours to find a place to dock and get on land. And so they're their whole plan is to they've left the rope, and uh Fezic just holds them on their back or they strap them to his back, all three of them, and he climbs up with them on his back. Now I have a question about this scene. I need to know, like a special effects person, how do they film this scene and do it? Because it just looks like they're climbing super fast up the rope, up the cliffside, and I'm like, how are they doing this? This is like superimposed or something.
JenYeah, what's the wide shot? I talk about the wide shot going up the cliff.
JoeYeah, yeah.
TomI think that's might be a spin-up film. So I know that Andre was actually dealing with like severe back problems at this point in his life because of uh his gigantism or whatever the technical term for that is. So it was all a truss where they were all on a winch, but like he was not carrying any of their weight, but they were they were doing, they were going up like a a a wall. Oh, so like okay like there there was a trust so that they were on him, but he wasn't carrying their weight, and they were all getting like kind of winched up the wall while he was doing the rope.
JoeAnd then they they uh edited out in post, as they said.
TomYeah, I imagine that the minute that those are like I don't know if that's miniature work or if that's you know uh you know, stunk a stunt thing or whatever else, but yeah. Yeah, but yes, it's definitely sped up, whatever it is. No one's going that fast.
JoeYeah, and then when and then when the dread pirate Roberts, right? At this point, we take the arms.
JenHis legs are just out, and he's just going up with his arms.
JoeHe's just pulling it up, up, up, but up. Uh they cut the rope, uh, but that doesn't stop the dread pirate Roberts or the man in black, as he's referred to, I believe, at this point.
TomYeah. Um my word as a Spaniard, I've known too many Spaniards.
JoeYeah, yes, there's some great dialogue here. So uh Vicini orders an ego to stay and kill him, and then him and Fezek grab the buttercup and go on their way. Uh, we get this great dialogue, which is straight from the book, basically.
TomYeah.
JoeUm, I love the dialogue in this, knowing that it's taken straight from the book, too, because most of the dialogue is straight from the book. I mean, there's some stuff added, cut, and whatever, but for the most part, it's there. It's just these actors forget to life so perfectly.
TomYeah. The book gives more context to the sword fighting styles that they use in this, where like they just kind of say, like, uh, then I would use my Agrippa or whatever. But like as you don't need to understand any of the background. You get it, you get everything that's like happening here. This is uh this this sword fighting scene, this whole scene from you know, from when he says, I swear on the the soul of my father, like to the end of this scene. One of my favorite bits of any movie ever. I would say.
JenIt's great.
TomThis is great.
JoeYeah, I mean, like you said, I'll give you my word as a Spaniard, I'll help, right? Because he's like, he wants to move this along. Yeah, just get up here now so I can kill you. Like, come on. And he's like, Well, I'm a bit, you know, it's a bit tough. How about I throw your rope? I I don't why you probably wouldn't trust me. I give you my word as a Spaniard, as you said. Then he says, How about if I swear on my father, my dead father, Domingo Montoya? And then he's like, Okay, I believe you. Throws down the rope. I I just love how gentlemanly and sportsman like the killing, like yeah, the killing is going on.
TomYeah, yeah.
JoeHe lets him, he's like, All right, let's fight. He's like, No, no, no, take some take a minute to catch your breath.
JenLike, yeah, what do they say to each other? Like, I hate something, you're a something, I hate to kill you, and then he says, I hate to die.
JoeI hate to die, yeah.
JenYeah, I forget what they call each other though.
JoeYes. Um yeah, it's it's it's great. And the the sword fight is really good. I mean, I was impressed by this. I've always been impressed by the sword fighting in this. Um, yeah, it's a really good sword fight. I think there's a story about this where like the two of them, you know, Elvis and and um Petenkin practice with like you know, the the choreographers who created the sword fight for like months.
TomYeah.
JoeAnd then when they did the sword fight at real speed, it was only like a minute long. And Rob Ryan was like, no, we gotta make it longer. So they had to like add like two more minutes of sword fighting choreography to it. That's crazy, yeah. Uh, and it this is it's all them. There's no stun actors doing the sword fighting. I I imagine the flip parts and the flip is not them.
TomYeah, yeah.
JoeYeah. But the the actual sword fighting is is the two actors fighting. So it's a really good sword fighting scene. And then, you know, obviously they s they quip in between.
TomUm I am not left-handed. I am not left-handed either. Everything in here is true.
JoeYes. Um, and you get in the book, you get a little bit more background about that. Like Anigo would fight people left-handed because it was more of a challenge. He was too easy for him to fight people right-handed because right, they don't go into like the master and he's a wizard.
JenHe says, Yeah, he says at the beginning, like, I'll fight him with my left hand. Fight him with my right, over too quickly.
JoeYes.
JenAnd he's like, Whatever, do whatever you want. Just kill him.
JoeYeah.
JenYeah.
TomUm, I always felt because Inigo is uh is I I it's such a like you were saying before, I think in the last episode, Joe, like when you watch the movie, he's gonna be one of your favorite characters in the movie, right? And like definitely so for me. And I always felt bad that Inigo's supposed to be the best swordsman on the planet and he loses this fight. But again, like what's he fighting for? And what's and what's the man in black fighting for? And I guess that's your that's your differentiator.
JoeYes. Um, also because they don't go into the background of Inigo as much in the movie, so like you don't really get that he is the greatest, like you know, he is a real he's probably the greatest sword fighter ever, except for the man in black. But they they kind of don't go into that as much, you just know he's really good.
TomBut you get uh yeah, you get the sense you don't know how good he is necessarily, but you do at one point in the movie understand that he's literally trained since he's a child in sword fighting just to kill one guy.
JoeYeah, and he gets defeated by uh the man in black, but the man in black again doesn't kill him uh because they're gentlemanly like, even though he's killed thousands of people.
JenHe'd never kill anyone.
JoeHe'd never kill anyone except all those people he killed as a pirate.
JenNo, he didn't. He didn't, not in the movie.
JoeThere's a lot of contradictory things happening here because of like you could say, oh, he didn't kill an ego because he was impressed by him and he was so sportsmanlike and letting getting him up and letting him catch his breath to make it a fair fight. But when you're a pirate taking over ships, you're that's not a fair fight.
JenHe's just knocking everyone out with his sword on the ship.
JoeThrowing him in the water and letting that letting them drown.
JenI don't know.
JoeWe'll never get past the pirate thing, will we?
JenNo.
TomJust gotta he's a pirate man. It's just what it's so it's his job.
JenWhat happens on the ship stays on the ship.
JoeIt's like Vegas.
JenThat's right, yeah, it's Vegas.
JoeA very murdery Vegas. Yeah. Oh boy. Uh so then, right that so that's the first uh test or challenge, right? He's gotta go through three challenges. Sword fighting. The next one is with uh Fezic, where he fights Fezic on no weapons.
JenYeah.
TomKill you right here. Yeah.
JenI didn't have to miss. I believe you.
TomWhat does he say when he knocks him out? Sleep well and dream of large women.
JoeLarge women. Yes. I don't think that's in the book.
TomNo. No.
JoeUh yeah, so they fight and Wesley. Oh, I spoiled it. Uh the man. Oh no, everybody knows.
TomHow could it be?
JoeThe man in black uh manages to get him into like a sleeper maneuver and uh eventually knocks him out and says that great line. Um and then we get to the scene.
TomYes.
JoeAnd maybe one of the best scenes in the movie.
TomEverything in this movie is the best scene in the movie.
JoeThis is such a great uh so alright. This is such a great scene for very for very many reasons. One, the what's most what happens in the scene is obviously great. The the dialogue in the scene is great, and the portrayal of Wallace Sean is just awesome in this scene.
TomHe really is.
JoeHim going through all of the different like he's like, but you wouldn't do this because if you were, then you'd do that. But you must know that I'm that, so you would know that I would do this. Like his I I don't I want to know how many takes it took him to get through that.
TomAnd like the whole thing he does, he goes, What's that? And he switches the cards.
JoeIt's great.
JenWhat in the world is that?
JoeYeah, but like it's it's like so smart. He doesn't even take a breath. He looks like he's getting redder and like trying like getting he looks like he's really like physically exhausted from saying all of that dialogue.
TomOh my gosh. And then just laughter, laughter, laughter, freeze, die.
JoeYeah, fall over. Uh oh my god, it's so good. That's trademark. Sorry, Jen. Do I owe you money?
JenNo, you're good.
JoeYes, all of that is for naught. And I'm I'm I'm imagining uh the man in black as a character trying to hold keep his poker face going for this entire scene. Uh this encounter with Vassini, because he knows something that that Vassini doesn't know. That's all of this nonsense he's spouting doesn't matter because both of the cups were poisoned, and he spent the last whatever years uh building up a tolerance to iocaine powder.
JenOkay.
TomJust take a little poison every day.
JenYeah.
TomYou take a lot of poison. Uh and which is the first or the second supposition that Fizzini has is like you know you can't survive poison, so you put the cup as far away from you as possible. So obviously it's the cup in front of me, right? Which is like from the get-go, his entire line of reasoning is flawed.
JoeYeah. Well, and yeah, he never he never even conceived that the man in black was immune to the effects of io cane powder. Some might say uh inconceivable.
TomYeah, that's the biggest regret, is that that is no longer a word in the film.
JoeUh thus ends Vicini in the Princess Pride. Um So what do we get next?
JenSee, and he doesn't have a problem killing Vicini because Vicini's bad. The other two guys aren't bad. So his death count is right now at one. And I believe it stays that way.
TomStays that way. Yeah, unless you count R O U S.
JoeSo why doesn't he kill Vicini? He just innately knows that Vicini's the bad guy and the rest of the other two guys are good.
JenI don't know. I mean he has a knife in Buttercup's throat.
TomYeah, he's like, I'm gonna kill her if you know that's true.
JoeI guess so. He's the one only one that physically threatens her in his presence. Sure. Um all right, so then Princess Buttercup is free. There's some dialogue between him and um her and uh the the man in black. Uh he kind of is really mean to her.
JenYeah. I don't know why he's like what's his end game here? Like it's not like he rescues her and then he's like, It's me. He's like pissed off because he thinks she married somebody else while he was gone. And even though she said she would wait for him. But then like at what point was he gonna just reveal what what was was he gonna just take it to the ship and be like what he does, basically.
TomLike I think he's hoping to see some sign that like what he's afraid happened isn't real? Like Yeah, is he like test on her?
JenWell, she says, yeah, because he's like, Did you marry him right away? Like, or did you whatever? And then she says she says you d I died that day, and then right after that is when she pushes him down the hill. So I guess maybe after she said that he would have revealed himself, but then she pushed him.
JoeSo Yeah. So is this is it like is he probing her? Is he trying to test her to see where her true love lies?
JenYeah, like what if what if she was like, Yeah, I love Humper Dink now? Then what?
TomI think he'd bring her back and not reveal who he was. Because I don't know if he knows that Humper Dink's behind this yet. He just thinks that she's been away.
JenNo, I don't I don't think he does. So I think he just happens to show up, right, when she gets kidnapped. Like Yeah, I guess.
JoeSo I think in the book, he's there when when she is uh revealed or or um what's the word I guess presented to the the the the Florins, right, that she's gonna be the bride. He's there in the book. Remember, he's like watching from afar. Like they mentioned like he's he's watching from afar or something like that.
JenOkay.
JoeSo I think he c I think the the idea is that he comes back for her, realizes, finds out that she's gonna be marrying him, and then I guess he's following her. He's been keeping an eye on her for for a while now, I guess.
JenStalking, you might say.
JoeYeah, some might say stalking.
JenSome some might say. He's trying to figure out how he could talk to her, get her alone, and then she's out on a horse ride and he's about to go over to her, and he waits to see what's gonna happen, I guess. I don't know.
JoeYeah. But anyway, he's really mean to her to I guess find out if who you know where her loyalties or her true love lies. Um, like you said, she says, I died that day, and then she pushes him down, and he says, as you wish, and she's Wesley. And then she just jumps down, like decides I'm gonna roll down with him. Which is kind of like a little bit of a. Yeah, in the in the movie, it looks like she just decides to just jump and roll down with him. I think in the book she kind of goes to climb down or whatever, or run down and she falls. And yeah, yeah. And just yeah.
TomUh two of the more obvious stunt performers in film history.
JoeYou can tell it's a man, not a woman. Yeah. The boy going down that hill.
JenYes. Yeah. I mean, that definitely didn't tickle. No, no.
JoeYeah, I felt bad for those guys.
JenUm time.
JoeYeah. So we get to all right, so then they are like, all right, we have to go through the swamp, the fire swamp to get through, right? They make up and they're like, we gotta go through the fire swamp. But we find out that uh Prince Helper Diggus is hunting them. Right? We get a hunting scene where he's back at where the fight, the duel took place, and he's like, he's Aragorn, right? He's like, two masters fought here, and what yeah.
JenThe loser went this way, and the winner went this way.
JoeThe loser went, yeah.
JenYeah.
TomYeah.
JenOkay.
JoeOh no, I I need my what's it called? Where is it?
JenDo I have it? I know where it is. Do I have it?
JoeDo I have it? Do I have it? Oh. I think you know what you're referring to.
JenOh you could just say it again.
TomI'm not a fantasy tracker. There it is.
JenHumperdick, however, is a fantasy tracker.
JoeHumperdick is a fantasy tracker. Alright, so then we get, you know, he's hunting them, he goes, right, then they he goes to the scene where he fought Andre the Giant. He's like a giant and fought here, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. They're tracking them.
JenYou get I okay and powder. I bet my life on it.
JoeYes.
JenI loved his accent. His accent is great.
JoeUm we get the fire swamp scene. There's the they call it the lightning sand, right? When she falls in the quicksand.
JenYeah.
JoeI think in the book it's snow sand.
JenI don't remember. But you get like a lot more of the their experience being inside the sand. Yeah, which would be just watching them get out.
TomProbably.
JenWhich yeah, that would have been impossible to do.
JoeIt's very difficult to film that.
JenYeah. And I always I she's got so much sand on her face when she comes out and she's like breathing in the sand. I'm always like, oh God, that must have been so awful. Like I just think about how much sand is like actually in her mouth and in her eyes.
JoeIn the book or in the movie?
JenNo, in the movie. Well in the movie. Obviously, in in the real story, but I mean in the movie, like her physic she's actually laying, she face is like caked in sand when they come out of it.
TomYeah.
JenShe's like breathing heavy and she's like breathing right into the sand.
JoeI was wondering too about filming that because they're definitely sand there that they're coming out of something. What is there? Like a trapdoor or something underneath, and then they just Yeah. I mean, what is it like maybe like six inches of sand and like floor, and then they come up through the floor or something like that?
TomYeah, I don't know. Yeah, and then they just cake him with sand. Yeah.
JoeYeah. That sucks. I hate the sand.
JenI know. I always think about that. Guts everywhere. I don't know, but it's like guts everywhere.
TomYeah.
JenUm so I have an I I can't remember where I have another this is my other story from this scene, but I can't remember exactly where he says it. But it says um in the fire swamp scene when Wesley and Buttercup are talking, he says the phrase summer home. Carrie always didn't know that phrase. He kept saying summer home instead of summer home. And Rob Reiner kept correcting him, and they both kept getting frustrated because Carrie always couldn't tell the difference between the accentuation on summer and on home.
TomI don't know.
JenI forget what he's saying. He's saying we'll get like a summer home or something somewhere, or I forget what he says, but Okay. Saying like we'll get a summer home. It's like, no, a summer home. Not a summer home.
JoeRight, right. I'm sorry, I was thinking about that one right there.
JenUm anyway, so that's what I think.
TomWe're talking about the last episode too, about like how when we were younger, we watched it, and as we were older, like we realized more things. So like when I was a kid, I never realized that he that Wesley sees the R O U S in the swamp like a few times before attack. So like the line of like, I don't believe they exist. Like I as a kid, I'm like, Oh, I guess he's wrong. Whereas you said oh yeah. No, he knows and he's trying to calm her down. It's like a different blood.
JoeYeah. He's already seen them. Yeah.
JenI think in the in the book it's something where it's like if they smell your blood, and if you're not bleeding, they won't go after you or something.
JoeYeah, it's it's very silly because yes, that's how they like right, they cover up the wound or whatever, so that way the they won't smell the blood. But they they go after them in the first place and there's no blood. So how does how does that how does that make sense? Yeah. It didn't make sense in the book, so I'm glad they didn't try to go into any kind of detail about that. But right, there's the flame the flame shoots, and they hear the sound that warns them of the flame shoots, then the the R O U S is the rodents of unusual size, uh come after them. There's a uh those are people in suits crawling around on the floor, right?
TomYeah, yes, yes.
JoeOkay. Uh life size.
JenIt's a small uh uh a little person. If you look at the little thing, I don't know. No, it is. If you look if you look at the credit, you could see at least one of them is credited as an R O U S.
JoeOh okay. Yeah. Uh that's very clear though, the way they move around. You can tell it's people on hands and feet crawling around on there.
TomLike when they flip over, too. It's like, oh yeah.
JoeUh yeah, that's an interesting little fight with them. Uh he kills the one, stabs one, and then the other one he throws off into the fire, right? He hears the clicking sound.
TomYeah.
JenNo, well, he stabs the one that he burns. He comes over to stabs. It's the same one. Um that scene where he right at the end when he like turns around and looks at her, and he's like very tired. I love, I don't know, I just love the way he looks in that for the women and and the men who like men. That's a good scene. I don't know. It's just very like emotional and he's very handsome. I like that. The look he gives her.
JoeI'll concede he's a handsome.
JenIt's a good look. Yeah.
TomI didn't realize it was up for debate, but yes.
JenDon't fight us on this one, Tom.
JoeI think Tom already admitted that in the first episode. Yeah, he did. He did. Um, it was my daughter who didn't think he was that good looking.
JenWell, I'll have a word with her when I see her next.
JoeYeah.
TomUm We're gonna throw down.
JenPuts it to me right now.
TomNo what you think.
JoeUh this is where uh the prince shows up. Uh have we established, oh, this is where we see, right? This is where we see that Count Rugen has six fingers.
JenYes. Yes, Wesley sees it.
JoeWesley sees it, right? He already knows about the six-fingered man and Nego Ted told him when they're uh before their fight. So she makes a deal. She says, if I come back with you, you'll let you'll send him back to his boat. Prince Humperdink's like, sure, let's do that.
TomUm We are both men of action. Lives do not become a lot of things.
JenI this scene is different in the book too, and it's much better in the movie. Because in the book, she's just like, Yeah, I can live without love. And she just like takes Humperdink's arm and like walks away with him. It's much it's like I understand what she's saying. Like I already lived, I don't know if it's just the way she says it or what, but I was like, what is this? Why is she being so cold? And in the movie, it's very clear that she's like, I can't lose you again. Like, I just at least need to know that you're alive. And then Humperdink rides by and grabs her and takes her away from him. She doesn't walk away.
TomRight.
JenShe's she like he's hurt, Wesley's kind of hurt by it, but she's doing it so that he won't die again, basically.
JoeYeah, it's very clear that that she still loves him and she's only she's doing this because she has no other choice. Whereas in the book it's more like it's it's her choice.
JenYeah.
JoeYeah.
JenI don't know. And she sees in the movie like there's like a bunch of crossbows aimed at him that maybe he doesn't even realize are there. And he's just screaming, death first. She's like, No, no, no, it's okay. They're gonna kill you immediately. Like, we gotta let's slow this down. So I definitely like it better in the movie.
JoeYeah, and there's like a there's a playing with words here because the prince in the book says, I I promise I won't, I will do no harm to Wesley, to him. And it's like, well, he doesn't. Uh Rugin does it, or the albino does it, you know, it's it's not him doing the harm himself.
TomOh.
JoeUm but in this, I don't think he promises that. He's just like, Yeah, sure. And then he's and then he says, and then he says to Rugan, take him to the pit of despair.
JenYeah. I think the same thing happens in the movie that happens in the book where he like storms in there and cranks the machine up all the way, right? Isn't it?
JoeOnly in the movie he goes up to 50.
TomYeah.
JoeIn the book, it only goes up to 10. 20.
JenI was kind of I was in 20.
JoeOh, I don't remember. I thought they had a golden opportunity here to make it go up to 11. Yes.
JenI thought that would have been perfect. It only goes to 11.
JoeOh, it would have been perfect. Just put it up. This is right after Spinal Tap. You've got Christopher Guest there. Rob Reiner's the director. Make it go to 11. So there is a story about this scene. Um, right. So uh I believe it's Count Rugin knocks out uh Wesley, right? So so apparently, um during the scene where Rugen knocks out Wesley with the hilt of his sword, they couldn't get the camera angle to look right on camera. So Elvis told Christopher Guest just hit him for real. And Guest hit him a little too hard and knocked him stone cold unconscious.
JenIs that the scene in the movie when he gets really knocked unconscious?
JoeI probably I imagine they just used that scene. And it actually knocked him unconscious, and he had they had to shut down production and take him to the ER.
JenThat's been a nice lucky didn't kill him.
JoeYeah. Well, he told him to hit him. I know, but I think he just hit him a little too hard, though.
JenOh my god.
TomI jarred him too hard.
JoeYes, basically that's what happened. Uh also Carriells broke broke his toe during this, during the first week of production, but it wasn't it wasn't during filming. He was riding uh Andre the Giant's three-wheeled ATV because that's how he would get around on set because of his his back pain. Is it's called like acromegaly.
JenYeah, yeah.
JoeUm so they so they had an ATV for him to get around on so he wouldn't have to walk around too much on set. And I always took it for a joyride, caught his foot under a footrest and snapped his toe.
JenPerfect.
JoeAnd he had to film almost all of his running and action scenes hiding in the a limp. Oh wow because of that. Yeah. So anyway, enter the pit of despair where where uh Wesley is taken, we meet the albino.
TomYeah.
JoeI I love how he's like patting him with the like, what is he doing?
JenHe's cleaning the wound. So weird way it's the wound has no like cut on it, it's just blood on his shoulder. But he's just like patting him and patting him over.
JoeIt's very weird. It's a very weird scene of him patting him. I mean, even when Wesley wakes up, he kind of looks at him like, what the fuck are you doing? He's just like tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, put it in the water, tap, tap, tap, tap.
JenWell, Buttercup has the dream about uh Boo Boo.
JoeOh yes.
JenThen she's married him, and Fred Savage is like, no, no, they don't get married.
TomRight, that's always that's the part where he's like, who gets Humperting? Yeah, nobody. Nobody lives.
JenYeah.
JoeHe does live too.
JenBut then like Buttercup wakes, so it's the middle of the night, you know, she has this nightmare. She goes to uh Humperding's study where he's awake doing whatever, and she's like, I'm gonna kill myself if you don't if I can't be with Wesley, and he says the thing about the four ships and all the stuff. And then when she leaves, like Count Rugen is just standing by the fireplace.
TomYes.
JenLike it's the middle of the night. He's just like standing there while he's doing his books. Like, what's going on? They're just plotting all night long.
JoeI don't yeah, I don't I don't think you know he's there until they do until the end of the scene where I'm just like, this is it's nighttime.
JenWhat's he doing? What are they doing?
JoeHe's plotting. Yeah, I know. It's like Yeah, it's like you can't kill yourself. I need to kill you.
JenYeah, right.
JoeAlthough I don't know why he doesn't just let her kill herself and then just make it look like when the CSI people come in, they would know how it went down.
JenHe has to make it look good.
JoeWell, he could still do his like setup to it. Like when she kills herself, he can go and do he's got he's got the boots.
JenYeah. The footprints. That's not in the movie.
JoeNo, that's not. Um they don't really go too deep into the Florin Gilder um plot, you know, and how he's really just wants to start a war. Like, I mean, they he's it's this is the purpose, but they don't really drive it home or spend too much time on it.
JenYeah.
TomMeaningless.
JenWhy does he say the whole thing about like, I'm I'm getting married, I'm running a kingdom, I have to kill my fiance, I'm swamped.
JoeYes. So what's next? Is this when he says, is this when he tells uh Yellen that he needs to clear out the thieves' quarters before his wedding?
TomYeah, probably. Or the thief's forest.
JoeIt's a thief's forest in the book in the movie.
TomYeah.
JoeAnd they form the brute squad, and then we we find out we we meet back up with Anigo and Fezek.
TomYeah.
JoeI don't know if I missed anything in the interim.
TomYeah, I think that's pretty much it. Yeah. You I think you get the while that's happening, you get the first torture scene. Yeah. In uh where you find out what the machine is and then it takes a year. I just took one year of your life.
JoeWell, that's that's the scene that's right after because they hear him yelling, right?
JenAnd that's when No, they hear him yell when he goes to 50. When he died, he does. So now once he comes back to life, he all that time taken off his life is back on now. Like he took 50 years off, and then is he dead because he took 50 years and that's all he had left? Or is he dead because of like how I never thought about that before, but yeah. Yeah, I don't know. Because he's like, say he's like 25, take 50 years off, he's 75, and that's it. They already took off a couple years before that.
JoeI don't know the science or the magic behind the machine.
JenWhen he comes back to life, he gets all those years back, I guess.
JoeWell, yeah, I guess that's why in the book he only does 10.
JenYeah.
JoeThat's why you should have done 11. It would have been perfect. Um, yeah, so Inigo is a drunk now because he's doesn't know what to do with himself. He's thinks he's lost his chance to kill the six-fingered man. Uh Fezick's on the brute squad to help clear out the thieves forest. That's what he meets back up with uh Inigo. So they don't go through the whole thing of like I mean, drunk Inigo says back to the beginning he has to meet Vicini, right? He says it when he's yelling.
TomRight, that's why he's there, yeah.
JoeThey don't kind of go into the fact that Fezick forgot what the plan was.
JenWell, Fezik gets a ton of information in the movie. Fezick's like Vassini, well, he finds out Vassini's dead in the book. He's like Vassini's dead, also Count Rugan is a six-fingered man, which he just must have picked up by being on the Brute Squad and maybe seeing him. He just tells an ego that information.
TomYes.
JenSo he must have just been like working with the Bruce Squad for a while. A couple days or something. And six fingers.
JoeYeah, even though it's Yellen who puts together the Brute Squad, I believe, in the book. Yeah, they don't ever they don't ever address in the book or the movie. How Fezick knows that Kyle Rugin is a six finger.
JenDoes he know in the book that he that does he tell him in the book too? Or because they make it seem like Wesley's gonna tell him because he sees the six fingers.
JoeHe does he has to have told him because otherwise, how does he know?
JenI don't know. That's what I'm saying.
JoeDoes Wesley tell him later, or does he No, because he wants to get the whole thing. He wants to get Wesley to get to get to help him get to him.
JenOh yeah, okay.
TomYeah. I guess it's just Wesley knows, and now you, the audience, right? No.
JenRight. Everybody knows.
TomSo now now that now the information's available.
JenBut yeah, Wesley knowing doesn't change anything.
JoeYeah, it doesn't change anything. Um so this kind of r revives an ego. He's like, Oh, we was six-finger man, we gotta get back to it. But you know, how are we gonna do this? There's 30 men, I think, guarding the gate at this point, and they're debating like, well, you can take how many, I can take how many. There's too many. We need somebody who can who's smart, who can come up with a plan and strategize. That was Vicini's job. Um but oh, the only person who could do that is the person who bested all of them, and that would be the man in black. And then they have to try to figure out where he is and how to find him. And then there's the scene now there's a scene that sets that sets the prince off.
JenIt's that I think it's that Is it the scene where No, when she says he's like, Oh, I'll bring all my ships to the whatever, and she's like, You mean all but your four fastest that you sent out? And then she like yells at him and calls him a coward, and then he shuts me out and she calls him a coward. And he yeah, he locks her in her room.
JoeYes. That's when he goes and runs up. Yeah, and he pumps the machine up to 50, and Count Rugan's like, No. Right.
JenHe's like, Oh, you could have you could have had true love. She loves you, brrrh. Then he pumps it up.
JoeYes. And then he lets out the yell, and ego and fezzle hear it, and they're like, that's the sound of it uh of something suffering, right? I heard that sounded like a lot of it. The ultimate suffering. That's it. Yeah.
JenIn the book, they drag out like the torture goes for longer because they're torturing him with other things, and then he's like perfectly fine with it. He can like take his brain away from the torture that the machine is like, yeah, the machine's not ready yet.
JoeYeah. Right? They're he's waiting for it to be ready, and then once it's finally ready, then he right they test it on a dog first.
JenYeah, something.
JoeYeah, there's definitely a lot more torture in the uh again. Maybe why I would think this isn't necessarily for children in the book. It's a lot more torture. Detail torture.
TomUm Hansel and Gretel, a which cooks kids and eats them. I don't know.
JoeThat's true.
TomKids are fine with a lot of stuff.
JoeYeah. I like how they kept the suction cups too as part of the machine. They're all little suction cups on his nipples.
JenBut they're like in his mouth in the book. They're like all over everyone. Oh, yeah, they put them on his tongue and his eyes.
JoeYeah. Yeah, there's like a there's like tons of suction cups all over his body. Same principle. The suction cups suck out life.
TomYeah. He gets them on his head, his chest. Yeah.
JoeUm, all right. So then, right, Anigo and Fezzick are trying to find where the sound came from. This is a big change from the book, right? He uses his sword to find the the entrance, which is I don't know. It's okay.
JenSo his father. Yeah, his father shows him where the entrance is.
JoeWas it was it my favorite uh little scene in there to throw to throw in there for him to find it? I think they just don't they just see the albino.
TomYeah, they just go in.
JoeRight? They follow the sound and then they see the albino coming out with the wheelbarrow, and then they just you know, they go in and the in the movie, they just go right down. In the book, they're going through all the layers of the zoo of death. There's like uh what is what are they? There's a snake, right?
JenYeah, I can't remember what there's like a spider, maybe. Yeah, I think there's a snake or spider.
JoeThere's a few different things that they have to go through. Um they get him down and then they they they find him, they think he's dead. We need a miracle. We go to miracle max, enter miracle Max and Valerie, uh, Billy Crystal and Carol Kane uh in their cameo scene, which is just amazing.
JenI have a note that says, like, how does Carrie always not laugh when Billy Crystal's like screaming in his face?
JoeWell, I'll tell you a story.
JenYeah. Oh, tell me a story, Joe.
JoeMandy Petankin also got injured in this movie, but not not from sword fighting or anything like that. During the Miracle Max scene, he was trying so hard not to laugh at Billy Crystal. He literally strained an abdominal muscle and bruised a rib.
TomOh my gosh. Oh my gosh. It's terrific. I mean, again, like just so many lines in this bit that are quotable.
JenAnd they uh I almost said a line from this bit, but I I changed it. I swerved at the last second, but I was gonna say uh I make him better, Humberding suffers, humiliations galore. I love that line.
JoeA lot of this scene is um like Billy Crystal and Carol Cain's stuff is is improvised.
TomJust just the the have fun storming the castle. It's just I feel like has become just a thing people say.
JoeHave fun storming the castle. And the uh and the the when he when they first come in, he's like, I'm gonna uh call the brute squad. And he's like, Yeah, I'm the brute squad. Which is a line from the book.
TomYeah.
JoeYou are the brute squad. Yeah, that line's not in the book, and I feel like that one Billy Crystal threw in there himself. You are the brute squad. Yeah, this scene is great, it's funny, it's hysterical.
TomUm, let's look for loose change. Sorry.
JoeYeah, when he fills up his uh Wesley with the with the whatever what do they call that? Like the fellows. And then he's like, yes, he's like to blow, which we all know means to bluff. Oh, it's great. They even have the chocolate-coated pill.
JenYeah.
JoeThey don't go into detail about how much time he has while he's so so it's the mechanics of it work a little different, right? In the in the book, the pill will keep will get him alive for a certain amount of time, but then he has no way after that he'll he'll be exhausted, right? Like he'll he'll need to be like go through a long rest period to kind of recover.
TomRight. Whereas in the movie it's like he'll slowly get back to to full.
JenYeah, well it's like the pill, if you take the pill too soon, it's almost like the pill needs to sit. Isn't that what they say? Like we're gonna get we're giving him the pill too soon, so that's why it takes him so long to like get his energy back. Is that what it is? Or because he's like it's only been this much time.
JoeWell, I think they need to Yeah, that's a good question. Like, I don't know if they ex- They say it takes 15 minutes to start start working. I don't remember now in the movie, right? It's a little bit different and it's a little confusing about how it works.
TomIt's hilarious. So it's funny. I love it.
JoeThey bring him up to the wall, right? And then they they give him the pill and it I like yeah, the whole scene where he's holding up his head and he's flopping it back and flopping it forward. And I love it. He turns his head when he talks to him. He turns his head to him when he talks, and then he turns his head to Amigo when he talks.
JenWhen they give him the pill, the size of Andre's hand on his face. Yes, it's like it's like his whole face, but it's like it's ridiculous.
JoeHis hands are enormous.
TomYes, yes.
JenIt makes the two guys look small, like they look miniature next to him, and they're like two regular-sized guys.
JoeBut not even just the the like the height, but I think every part of his body, yeah. His hands are bigger, yeah.
TomYes, he's got big hands for his size.
JoeThat part is just ridiculous. His he could probably crush somebody's head with one hand.
TomYes. We we talked before about uh, or it might have been the previous episode about like why it's so lucky that it was filmed when it was because the cast is so perfect. Like there's nobody else, like he is a giant, like right, you know, and he's able to deliver a performance that that's really endearing, but like just the fact that there's no gimmicker, there's no you can tell there's not camera tricks, but he's just like hand on head so much bigger than these other people, um, you know, it it it it works out very well.
JoeYeah. Um, yeah, that's a very funny scene with uh with his head flopping about.
JenYeah, I love it. He's like, if we only had a wheelbarrow, it would be something. He's like, where did we leave that wheelbarrow? Why didn't you list that in our assets and if we had a Holocaust club like this?
JoeHe's like, oh yeah, the miracle max gave it to me.
JenHe said I could have it.
JoeYeah.
JenYeah, the bot, just like the the physical comedy and the and the the quotes, it's so good.
JoeI like that scene too where he's like, well, you know, that I am the dread pirate, while but like his whole dialogue seems it's hard to even know what he's saying at the end.
TomYou will not be here. Yeah. They didn't tell him what to say.
JenI would run if I saw that. Oh, you mean this king?
TomYeah.
JenI didn't know that that guy had a name, even though they say it in the movie. I had no idea until like in the book, he's like a bigger character. But I was like, Oh, Galen. Yeah, like that's a guy.
JoeAnd he's he's supposed to be brothers with the albino.
JenYeah.
JoeThey're brothers.
JenYeah. Um another set of brothers two weeks in a row.
JoeWe got they're brothers. Making the connection.
TomYeah.
JoeUm so what do we got next?
TomMeanwhile, that's happening, and the impressing clergyman is impressing everybody. Yes. Mowage. Oh my gosh. Another one.
JoeJust perfect. Right from the book, though. That whole thing is he speaks like that in the book.
TomYeah. And wav.
JoeWove. Oh, Peter Cook. Perfect. Making the most of your little of your little spot there. So they get into the castle, they fight a bunch of guys. Right, Anigo encounters Count Rugen.
JenYeah.
TomGives him the line.
JenThey kill the other guys.
TomSo when he gives him the line, Rugen runs. Right. And the four guys come and ego kills them instantly.
JoeYeah, within like like five seconds. Yeah.
TomRight. Probably. Kill, kill, kill, kill. I think he may parry a shot. Just so it's great.
JoeRugen runs, locks the door. He's like trying to get in. He can't get in. That's the scene, John. You were talking about where uh Mandy Davis just yelled. Yeah. He's getting away. He's throwing himself into the door. I like how he I like how he props up Wesley. Like he sticks his arms in the suit of armor. Like he's hanging him just like this. And I mean, I we have to give enough credit to Carrie Elvis because his his comedic, you know, I know physical comedy and his timing and his, you know, his deadpan deliveries and stairs are just perfect for this. Um, but yes, he just leaves him there hanging. He goes, like mashes down the door with one hand. He immediately goes back. Yeah.
JenYeah, and he's gone.
JoeAnd he's gone.
JenYeah.
JoeLike there's not even like it's weird because they do cut, right? So they do cut, I think, to the maybe the wedding scene or something like that. I think maybe the princess is walking down the hall with her in-laws.
TomYeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. She kissed me. I guess she's talking about she's gonna kill herself.
JoeHe doesn't even know what's happening. Yes. Um, and then they cut back and he's gone, even though Andre was only gone for like 30 seconds.
TomAndre does the uh the John Travolta look around. Yeah.
JoeYeah. Did I leave him? And then we get the fight scene between Rugen and Anigo. Uh Anigo gets the dagger thrown at him right away, and he's like all upset. He thinks he's dead. He's done for. But I don't even know. Like, what is it? I'm trying to remember now. What is it that kind of gets him back up?
TomWell, Rugan Rugen's mocking him for like he makes fun of him and then uh like for for fail for being such a complete failure.
JenYeah.
TomAnd then he goes to kill him and he just he blocks the shot like that.
JenAnd he starts saying hello. He just said like six times in a row. My name is like, stop saying that.
TomYeah. And then he's like, oh wait, uh offer me money, offer me anything.
JenHe slices his face like he did to him.
TomOffer offer um offer me anything I want. Yeah, or for anything I wish for anything you want. And he goes, I want my father back, son of a son of a bitch.
JoeYeah. He stabs him first and then says, I want my father back, you son of a bitch.
TomRight. The book cuts his heart out, which she doesn't Oh, I don't remember that. Yeah.
JenHe does?
TomYeah. Yeah. I think he does. He cuts his heart out. Yeah. This is you know, whatever. It's pretty much a big thing.
JoeWell, because he winds up, he stabs him like around his heart. Okay. Yes.
TomYeah. Where in the movie it's like he he gives him the wounds that that that Ruga gives him. He pays him back.
JenYeah. But he cuts his face. I didn't realize that he was parrying like a like a heart shot. That's why he gets him in the two shoulders.
TomYes. Yeah. He's he's he's uh blocking the killer.
JenLike they do the same thing in the book, too. But it's like, oh, that's what he's doing. I get it.
JoeAnd if you notice, he does have uh right, Anigo does have his kind of like his fist in the wound. They don't talk about it, but like in the book, he's like the Scottish, one of his Scottish trainers tells him that, right?
JenYeah, to hold the wound closed.
JoeYeah, put your fist in it.
JenHe's just like, I don't know how he lives through that because he as soon as he gets hit, you're like, oh he's he's dead.
JoeRight.
JenLike that's a kill shot. And then he's just fine.
JoeIt's a it's a stum. Well, stuff there's a lot of organs down there.
JenBut I think I don't know what he does. He just rides away on a horse.
JoeIt's supposed to be like a a specific type of dagger, right? In the book, it's like a blood, some sort of dagger that causes you to bleed a lot more. That's why they're so deadly.
TomYeah, yeah. It's like when it gets pulled out, it it rips the wound out. Where it's not in the movie, it's just a dagger. Yeah. And um well, the book, I mean, we'll get into this as we go, right? The book has a very not very different, but it's got a different ending. Yeah, right.
JoeOh, yes. Yeah, they definitely changed the ending in this. Um, so then we cut back to Wesley and Buttercup, Wesley or Buttercup, right? She's in the room and Wesley's lying on the bed.
TomUm perfect breasts in the world.
JoeYeah, which is a line from the book as well. Um and then Prince Hupperdick comes in, right?
JenYeah, this is a scene where he yells at her a lot in the book, at least two times that I can think of. When he says gently the second time, like when she drops his head, he's not in the book. He's like, I feel like he's yelling at her more. He's like meaner about it.
TomYeah, it's it's definitely more communicating.
JenAnd also, like he he yells at her to tie. She says, like, I think you should tie him up. And he's like, I told you to tie him up, or some listen to me, or something like that. I'm like, all right, this is it's a little much.
TomYeah.
JenThis is supposed to be the end of their love story.
JoeUm, Prince Hubert Ding comes in. Uh, he's like to the death, he's like, No, to the pain.
TomOh my, it's so good.
JoeOh we get we get through the whole to the pain speech where he's like, Oh, I'm gonna cut off your nose and cut off your feet and your wrists, and he's like, I know, I know, I know. And he's like, No, no, no, wait, I'm not done yet. He's like, Yes, then you're gonna cut it. Yeah, and he's like, No, no, not your ears. Yeah. Um, but he's a good person. No, no, go ahead.
TomWell, yeah, it's it's it's it's definitely like here's here's your sign if you didn't understand, like, yeah, he's been he's been doing some pretty dirty deeds the last few years. Like this is this is this this is in him.
JoeWell, right, because you're saying this is this is another point in the Wesley's horrible column, but he's just bluffing.
TomYeah.
JoeThis is all abort.
TomWhere is he?
JoeI feel like it's definitely a bluff.
TomOh, it is. It is a it is a bluff.
JoeUm I mean, even if he was fully functional, I don't think he would do that. Do you? Do you really think he would do that if he was fully capable at the at this time?
TomOh, I I I I I don't put that past him. Honestly, I don't. I feel like really that's I feel like that's the comeuppance that Hupper Dink deserves.
JoeWhat about you, Jen? Do you think he would have really done it if he was able to not in the boot, not in the movie. But in the book?
JenUh maybe. Well, I mean, no, he definitely deserves it, but he's too good to do so. He's if he did that, then he's as bad as Humperdink is. Yeah. He can't do that to Pete. He leaves how he doesn't kill Humberdink. He just leaves him, he says, like, you know, just you you lost, I'm getting her, and that's it. And you're just gonna have to live with it your the rest of your life. That's it.
JoeYeah, I mean, the I guess the fact that he leaves him alive unharmed is the answer. He could do that after he's died.
JenI mean, yeah. An ego kills Rugen, he just left leaves Humperdink alive.
JoeYeah, which is kind of weird. What would he do?
JenHumperdink's such a weakling in this.
JoeLike, but he's still he's he's gonna be the king of Florin.
JenI don't know. I just feel like if if if if Wesley killed Humperdink, it they're so unmatched. Like Rugen's like a bad person who set up a torture machine, he killed an ego's father. Humperdink's done bad stuff, but like I feel like Wesley could just he's not a yeah, like in the book he's more of a threat, I would say. But in this, he's just like an absolute weak coward weakling.
TomRight.
JenSo it'll be like killing a kid, you know, it'd be like nothing to him.
TomRight. Like Wesley Wesley identifies Rugin as a man of action, right? And Rugin can fight you. But uh yeah, Humper Dake is a coward, and and and like I I think you're right in that. Um well answer me.
JenThe only thing he ever does is like, I'm sorry, when Wesley is like scrapped down to the table, he does the machine. Like he doesn't he never tries to fight him.
JoeRight. No, no, until the end. Until the end.
JenYeah.
JoeTheoretically kill him.
JenRight, he did kill him, but he was strapped down to a table.
JoeBut all right, so let's let's play this game, right? The movie ends or and the book ends. Prince Humperdick's still alive, but and Buttercup's been kidnapped. Wouldn't he just go on doing his plan? Yeah, I think. He becomes king. Do you think he then goes after them at one point? Or you think he's just like, uh, that's okay. I I got what I needed out of this. Although he needs an air still.
JenI think in the movie, yes, he leaves them alone. But in the book, I he goes after them in the book.
TomYeah, the book is immediately he goes after them. There's no Yes. Right. The the book like and this is the like the the the book ends with a lady or the tiger scenario, right? Where like they're on the run, the and like the the prince is true, and you don't know what happens, right? And I think Goldman says, like, you know, in my opinion, they get away. But like whatever. And the movie ends with they get away. It's fine, it's done. Like Harper Dick Harper Dick gets away and and again, like I think you're right. Like Harper Dick doesn't need to get Barnacup back. Like he can use this and do what he wants to do anyway.
JoeYeah.
TomUm and then just find some other person to like have a kid with.
JoeYeah, there's not a lot of closure in either the book or the movie.
TomYeah.
JoeI mean, like you said, it's understood that they live happily ever. It's just like, okay, they live happily ever after. The prince has been defeated, but he's still alive and he's still gonna become king and he can still come after them.
JenWell, Anigo's gonna become the dread pirate they're all gonna go back to the ship, and then he'll have to switch Anigo to the dread pirate Roberts, I would imagine, and then he'll him and Buttercup leave, and Anigo and Fezick can stay on as pirates, I guess. Yeah, that's what I imagine will happen.
JoeAnd steal their stuff. That's all.
JenYeah.
TomWesley's rhymes for a different country than Florida or or Gilder.
JoeUm before before we wrap up the movie, uh, what what are your thoughts on the Buttercup jumping down to Fezick's shot?
JenThat hat he catches oh the shot, or that she doesn't. Oh, the shot. The bookie catches all of them.
JoeThe way it's shot.
JenThat's very lovely.
JoeYeah.
JenAnd ethereal.
JoeShe's just kind of like floating down and the music split like that.
JenRight, you don't, you don't, it's slow motion. You don't fall that gently when somebody throws you out a window.
JoeIt's kind of uh it was kind of silly.
TomUh well, like I mean so like they do that, and then like the two of that, like they just roll out the window. Like there's no like it's like it's like a foot drop for them.
JenThey just it catches them.
TomYeah.
JoeYeah.
TomRight away.
JenHi lady.
JoeYeah, that's funny. Hi lady. He found the four of the four white horses. So it's a callback to the uh to the book as well.
TomYeah.
JoeUm and then we yes, we go back to grandpa and uh grandson who enjoyed the book and wants grandpa to come back and read it again tomorrow.
TomWell the grandpa's gonna skip the end, right? With the and he's like, you could do the kissing part this time. He goes like that. The five kisses in the world.
JenThe best in the entire history.
JoeYep. Thus ends the uh the princess bride.
JenThey don't have like a they have like a good kiss before that. They kiss quick like little kisses.
JoeThey have a goodbye kiss. The first kiss, yes, that kiss in the beginning of the movie. There's a lot of things.
JenOh, in the beginning. In the beginning.
JoeYeah.
JenBut then after he comes back, she kisses him like when they're on the ground, but she's like kissing him like a lot, not like a big good one.
TomNo, yeah. This is like the first this is like the kiss. Yeah, the gently gently. We have time.
JenWe have yeah, that's again the same thing.
JoeThe that first kiss is an open-mouth kiss for sure.
JenThe first one at the beginning of the movie?
JoeYes.
JenI don't know if they're muck. I'll have to go researching.
JoePretty sure, pretty sure about that. Slow-mo. All right, so The Princess Bride was released in October of 1987. It wasn't an instant blockbuster, it grossed a respectable 30.8 million on a 16 million dollar budget. So, again, it made my to be honest, this is around the same numbers I think that the lawnmower man did, by the way, just for comparison.
JenOkay.
JoeSo let's put that put that in your back of your head.
JenIt's not gonna do the same numbers for me as the lawnmower man did.
JoeUh, but Fox struggled to market it. Trailers didn't know whether to sell it as a goofy kid's fairy tale or an action movie or romance, so they they had a little trouble working.
TomIt's really like I don't know what I would do if I was like like create a marketing campaign. Like, how do you get all the tones? You know?
JoeYeah. Um, you know, this movie really made its money in its uh in the late 80s, early 90s with the home video boom, right? VHS rentals, cable TV broadcast turned this into like a huge, huge generational classic movie. Word of mouth built a cult following that has only grown over the last 40 years or so. Um and I I say, I mean, you could say it established the template for modern self-aware fantasy, uh, paving the way for movies like Shrek. Stardust Stardust existed here.
TomStardust, great movie. I don't know. I mean, that is self-aware. I would say it's self-aware.
JoeIt's definitely self-aware. And enchanted.
TomOkay.
JoeI think that's uh Amy Adams, right? Yeah. Isn't that?
TomYes, that's Amy Adams, yeah. Um Disney movie. Yeah, and I think um I don't know if I throw Stardust in there, but I think part of the the reason, and this was alluded to when Jen was giving her her uh recollections of anecdotes by by Carrie Always. Like everyone who made this movie while they were making it seemed to like really love the process of making this film. And so I think it's helpful that like whether it's uh Carrie Always or Mandy Petinkin or or Billy Crystal or anybody who had a part in making this film, or Rob Reiner, like they always spoke so lovingly whenever they had an opportunity about like the process of like making this. And I think that that helped build like the the the the um I don't want to say cult following because I don't think it's like a cult classic. I think it's just a classic now. But like I think that it helped build that phenomenon of like people understanding like this movie was was something that we missed in the theaters.
JoeSo Jen, I don't know if you recall this, but we were at a wedding where the song, the end song to this played while the while the bridal party was walking down the aisle. Do you remember that?
JenUh one of our friends' weddings.
JoeYeah. Tom wasn't there though.
TomYeah, you specifically were there.
JenTom wouldn't have been invited.
JoeI'm gonna guess it's a it was one of our it was one of our bandmates. Yeah. Oh, Matt Phoenix now. Yes.
TomI would have guessed, I was gonna guess him.
JoeSarah, Sarah mentioned this when we were watching it. Yeah, the bridal party walked down to this end song, even though we were kind of trashing the song a bit.
JenBut um, but the music is I'm sure that there was probably no lyrics. It's probably just the I don't remember.
JoeAh, the lyrics might have been in there. I can't remember. So I could ask her if uh my wife if she remembers that.
JenBut yes, do it. Because the music is pretty.
JoeYeah, the music is pretty. Um, all right. Do we want to do our uh our ratings of this? Are we ready for ratings? Yeah. Oh, I have one more question before we get into that. Uh I want to ask this because this is a question I think that's worth asking. Um after reading the book, now that you know Jen, you and I have read the book, I know Tom you read this already a while ago. Do you think the movie is better than the book?
JenYes.
JoeYeah. I I agree as well. Yeah, I think the book is terrific.
JenOkay saying it. I feel I've not o not that I wouldn't be okay saying it, I feel better saying it because the author wrote the screenplay, so he obviously agrees. You know, or he w the changes that he made were made by him. So I think that between cutting some of the stuff out, making some of the characters more likable, adding a couple of different funny things in there, um, not much. Um but it was I I think it definitely improves upon the story from the book.
JoeYeah, and I'll say this too, right? Like they had they had a lot of freedom making this movie. Like there wasn't a lot of studio interference in it. So this is the movie that Reiner and and Goldman wanted to make. So I think that says a lot too. I think it does help when you have the author of the book adapting it.
TomAnd and not just necessarily the author of the book is uh is already like an Academy Award-winning screenwriter, right? Yes. Yeah.
JenI mean it's it's it I'll be honestly, it's sad when you read when you watch a movie and you really like it, and then you find out like the author hated it, wasn't involved, and you know, like I don't that's not good. You know, this is like a very, you know, he adapted it to the screen, made whatever changes he was good with. He's the one who did it. So, you know, I think it makes you feel better about preferring your movie.
JoeI I agree. I think it's when when you have somebody who understands how to adapt a novel into a movie and what to cut out because you have that experience of both writing novels and writing scri uh scripts and screenplays.
JenYeah. And and you're the creator of this world. So if you have to adjust something, you're gonna adjust it in the way that makes sense for these characters. Because you are you created them. So you know what an ego would say if it if we're if we're over here now instead of over here and we have to say something different, how would he react? Like you're the best person to know that because you created him. And yeah, but like some writers wouldn't be able to do a screenplay, some novel. So it's like you're you're right, it's like a good mix that he already knew how to write screenplays too.
JoeYeah. Um, all right, let's give it our ratings. Who wants to go first? I'll go first then.
TomOkay.
JoeSince none of you jumped up. I'm gonna give this a 4.25. Okay. Um, it's a fun movie. I like it. It's entertaining, it's got a lot of quotable lines, casting's perfect. Uh I uh yeah, I really enjoy it. I I was looking at past ratings to see to make sure I'm kind of putting it in line with other things. I don't think it's better than Jurassic Park or on the same level as Jurassic Park. So I'm putting it right right underneath it in that in that tier.
JenOkay. I don't I never remember what my old ratings were. It's too late to find them.
TomYou wanna go, Jen?
JenI'm gonna go because I already know what I'm giving it, and it's gonna join my list of perfect movies with a five.
JoeWow.
JenI love this movie. I can't think of anything that I would change in it. The cast is perfect, it's hilarious. Um yeah, I don't know. It's just a great, great movie. Perfect. I think I gave Jurassic Park a five, too, though, if I remember correctly. Yes, you did give Jurassic Park. I don't remember if there was anything else, but I'll have to look back. But yeah.
JoeYou gave um The Fellowship of the Ring, I think, a five.
JenOkay, yeah. Alright.
TomUm I think like Buttercup's breasts, this movie is perfect as well. Um even though um, like we did point out, like, you know, wow, that's clearly a stunt man, or wow, that's clearly uh a short person in a rat suit. Like, I don't care.
JenThat's the great that makes it perfect.
TomYeah, all that's it works for the movie. I think um I think that's all right.
JoeYeah, I mean I'm I'm taking off a little bit for like some of that corny stuff that's kind of funny.
TomLike I'm 4.25 is an unbelievably great score. Please don't feel pressed to change it, Joe. No, no, I'm not changing it.
JoeI'm telling you why I didn't give it a five. It's it's some of those things that like, you know, it's I I can't I can't get past the people crawling around dressed as rats. Well, it's funny and you know, but I I can't give it a perfect score because of that.
JenBut if I if somebody were to go in and put a CGI rat over that rat, it would ruin it.
JoeRight.
JenI feel I feel it has to be a practical rat.
JoeSo um Yeah, I don't know. Well, knowing what you know now, of course, but if it was originally a CGI rat that looked amazing, you might you might be I don't know, you might enjoy it. I don't know. I don't know.
TomSo um success.
JoeGo ahead. Enjoy it.
TomObviously, just to be clear, it's a five for me. Um we talked about, I think we talked about it. I know it was said in the chat, like the casting for this movie is absolutely perfect. And we said, like, oh, if it was made now, blah, blah, blah, blah. During, I believe it was during the pandemic, it might have been slightly after that, but I think it was while everyone was home. They did for charity a reenactment of the Princess Bride script with like a million different actors in it. So like people would play like Wesley for one scene, and then a different actor would play Wesley, and then they stitched the whole thing together. And I it was very because I think people were in their houses. Doing things. So like there's never two people together. It's always a cut from like one character to the other. I would definitely recommend watching that as like this weird what if version. It's it's very entertaining. I think you can still find it online.
JoeYeah. Um successful adaptation? I don't think I don't think there's a a debate about this 100% for sure. I obviously the movies become more popular than the book. Uh like I said, I didn't even realize that this was a book, I think, for most of my life.
TomI I I didn't realize the book was like I had to like look it up like the pre-internet days or like you know early internet days to find out that the book was a a gimmick. Like when I first read it too.
JoeYeah. I thought that that's amazing. I love that. Um, Jen, you were you were talking that you had some extra an extra scene in your book, in your version of the book.
JenYeah, so it's like a s like a beginning of a s I didn't actually finish reading it because I realized it's not real really part of the book, but it's like a an Buttercup's baby. It's like a an another bit about how like there's another story that he was trying to adapt, but then like like uh Stephen King was tapped to adapt it or so I don't I don't know. I have to like I I didn't finish reading it. But yeah, there's like extra stuff that happens afterwards, I guess.
TomYeah, I let up when you mentioned this, because again, I have like an older version of it. Um but in the 25th anniversary, and then I think in the 35th anniversary, in the 25th anniversary, he introduces it and then the 35th, I think that he puts an excerpt in it. This is he was originally planning to write a sequel, right? And he just never was able to crack it. Um but in one of them, I don't know which one you have, there's an excerpt from what he wrote before.
JenIt's a huge tome, the cop version that I have, with like a map in the front and everything. So it's probably that one.
JoeYeah. That's the that's part of the legal battles, Tom. So right, do you mention the legal the the fake legal battles between Morgan Stern's estate and then jokingly claiming that author Stephen King has been hired to abridge the law sequel, Buttercup's Baby, yeah.
JenSo I don't know if we've mentioned this on the show that we've been like trying to see if there's a connection but from each book to book that we've been doing. So I think it started with when we did Lord of the Rings, and then we went into um the Prestige, and we were like, oh, Sandy Circus is both of those.
JoeAaron Ross Powell Even before that, we went from Jurassic Park to Ready Player One to War of the Worlds, which were all directed by Spielberg. Spielberg Spielberg.
JenOkay. So we've been like looking and trying not to do it on purpose, but like once we picked the book, we looked to see if there's a connection from the last book. And we were not I was not anticipating a connection from the lawnmower man to this, but Stephen King is mentioned in this excerpt after, and I'm it's in my book, so I'm counting it. So now I'm just waiting to see if there's any connection from The Princess Bride to this next book, which I also do not think that I will find, but I'm I'm I'm gonna look for it.
JoeYeah.
JenThis might be the one that breaks it.
JoeOne little bit uh I think I didn't mention was uh when Mark Knoffler was uh called upon to do the music to this, he uh he said he would if they would display um if uh Rob Reiner would display a this is spinal tap hat in the grandson, aka Fred Savage's bedroom, which they did. I don't know if anybody caught that, but there is a this is spinal tap uh hat in his bedroom.
JenSo I love the uh the Santa Claus artwork that's on the closet.
JoeOh yeah, yeah.
JenIt's just like very perfect for like the kids who have made it a good room.
TomIt's it's such a better for a movie framing device than the framing device. Like it's so like and I think that's one of the differences between um good films and good literature. Good films are allowed to be, I think, emotionally manipulative in the way that like you know, you may have a father or a grandfather or a mother or a grandmother or some relative uh who you remember who's not around anymore, or something like that. That like you remember like them having some sort of experience with you like this that the movie plays upon those those those emotions, yeah.
JoeAgreed. We have a new patron to thank. Hey, joining the company of Chel Van and Callie Boyd.
JenThank you, Callie.
JoeAnd I have this is the Cali that I think it is. Uh Cali, you're awesome.
TomYou probably're still awesome, Callie. Thank you so much for for joining, and uh we appreciate you.
JoeEnjoy the back catalog of bonus episodes. There's plenty of them sitting there for you. I want to remind everyone to follow us on social media, join us over in Discord to continue the conversation there. We also post our episodes on YouTube, so be sure to go to our YouTube page, like and subscribe, rate and review us wherever you listen to podcasts, and check out our Patreon page to support us that way. Links to all the aforementioned information are included in the show notes to this episode. Final words, uh Tom.
TomUh, I just want to say we had we lost uh we lost some really uh impactful entertainers over the last week. With with Dolly Pardon passing, who was just really an example of like how you should live your life. Tim Curry, I think, uh had a a a tremendous impact on me and in the performances that he gave, I think on a lot of people. And then on a much less level, but I know for people like me who love the Transformers, like Frank Cullen, the voice of Alpha's Prime, passed away the third day, three days in a row. Yeah, these three uh in their own ways, legendary entertainers pass.
JoeAnd I think uh we learned we learned that yeah yesterday. I learned that he did the he did the voice of the Predator, the clicking sounds for the predator.
TomYeah, he was a voice artist, like uh uh Altimus Prime probably his most famous role, but he he did a lot of work. Uh he was he was very talented. So uh maybe not the same level of cultural impact, perhaps. Uh, but uh I just wanted to shout out those those those three and we'll I think we'll at least pay some credence to to Tim Curry in the in the next uh oh yeah, we'll be paying tribute to Tim Curry.
JoeWe're we're getting uh in a few uh uh what October I believe.
TomYeah.
JoeNo, before October.
TomYeah, I think it'll be time it'll be the Halloween months, I think, is when we think it's the right time to hit a Tim Curry.
JenNo, I don't think that one is in the Halloween months.
JoeIt's it's gonna be in September. Uh look. Look for it. Join us in Discord, you'll see our whole schedule of when we're recording in there. So you don't know. You can listen in on our recordings by joining our Patreon. So just you know, it's only a dollar. Um, yeah, we're gonna be paying tribute to Tim Curry covering one of his movies. Um now people are gonna start speculating, and people are gonna think we're doing it, is what I'm gonna guess.
TomWe're not doing that.
JoeBut we're not we're not doing the it, so Jen, you want to take us out?
JenYou must be that little Spanish brat I taught to listen to all those years ago. Simply incredible. Have you been chasing me your whole life only to fail now? I think that's the worst thing I've ever heard. How marvelous.