Shelf to Screen
Ever argued that the book was better? Or wondered how a 1,000-page epic fits into a two-hour movie?
From the creators of the Talk'aran'rhiod podcast comes Shelf to Screen, a deep dive into the transition of sci-fi and fantasy stories from the page to the premiere. Join Joe, Jen, and Tom as they dissect the newest adaptations and the cult classics, exploring what was lost in translation and what found new life on screen.
With the effortless chemistry and sharp wit you’ve come to expect, the trio tackles everything from Arrakis to Westeros. Whether you’re a "book-first" purist or a cinema enthusiast, tune in for insightful analysis, hilarious takes, and a celebration of the stories that are too big for just one medium.
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Shelf to Screen
The Lawnmower Man (part 2)
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Step into a digital world where the grass is definitely not greener and the pixels are aggressively 1992. We continue our discussion deconstructing the infamous 'cult classic' that left Stephen King so furious he sued to have his name removed from the credits!
What happens when a short story about a satyr-like gardener transforms into a cyber-god VR nightmare? Hear Joe break down why this movie is officially worse than The Hobbit! Hear Jen question the absolute discomfort of the virtual intimate scenes! Hear Tom scream with joy as the abusive priest meets a pixelated end!
We explore the rise of cyberpunk, the ethics of chimp intelligence, and why Pierce Brosnan probably wants to forget those human gyroscope machines. We dig into 90s horror tropes, the evolution of digital effects, and the sheer audacity of the mainframe plot. This episode covers virtual reality, Stephen King, 90s horror, adaptation changes, and CGI history. All that, plus the shocking connection to the Waco siege!
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Last time on shelf to screen.
TomI do like as he gets more intelligent, he becomes a better lover. Because that's true.
JenThe first time they do it, I'm like, this is making me extremely uncomfortable. She's not a whore. Whores do it for money. She does it because she likes it. She likes it. I'm like, okay.
TomIt's my name's the 90s and stuff.
JoeWomen have writes We're not even halfway through my notes. Although we've probably talked about a bunch of them already, like when we jumped around a bit, but before we start the next episode, could we do Roger Rabbit as an adaptation?
JenIs that an adaptation? Yes. Yes, it is. Censored Roger Rabbit. Is that a fantasy story? I guess, right?
TomYeah, I can't think you could yeah, it is. It's like if if what if critics are real? How many characters are real?
JenI'm gonna keep that one, put a pin in that one.
TomYeah.
JoeThe podcast where we discuss sci-fi fantasy literary adaptations to the big andor small screen. Oh boy. I'm the director Joe.
JenI'm Jen Angelo.
TomI have nothing. I'm sorry. Oh my gosh. I was gonna do something with Angelo, so it's gone. This is about prep ahead of time.
JoeDo you even know what Mrs. Kakosa? Do you even know what his wife's name is?
TomUm Mrs. Ann.
JenMrs.
TomI think her name is Up, Up Tight.
JoeNo, Caroline Angelo. Um I don't know if that's said at all in this movie. We are continuing our discussion of the 1992 movie The Lawnmower Man, which was very, very tightly adapted from the Stephen King short story released in 1975. I lie. It's been a journey and it's continuing on. It's it's the movie that keeps song giving.
TomUm there are some really interesting choices that this film makes, and a lot of them are gonna happen in the next 20 to 30 minutes of film.
JoeYeah, so the so you're talking about right, the so Dr. Angelo has decided to give Job the nootropic drugs and continue his yes, and continue his experimentation on Job, the neighborhood uh lawnmower man. It's not just a clever title. Um with one key difference, uh, he's not going to use the aggression formula in the in the his medicine, right? So we're getting we're we're giving drugs and we're using VR therapy, and it's yeah, this is where the movie starts getting weird, I want to say.
TomYeah. So it looks like the drugs are the drugs are uh are allowing the nootropic uh injections that he get are getting is is is allowing his mind to develop new neural pathways.
JoeAnd you know how that happens when he goes in VR, strange symbols just fire at his face. Yes, and that and that unlocks knowledge to knowledge they're just strange, weird, ruinic symbols.
TomBefore that happens, Dr. Angelo goes into VR as well and selects a portion of his brain to develop today. And then the symbols come in. I think basically he's a he's a Freemason now.
JoeUm eventually Masonic symbols in there.
TomYeah, you do see some scenes where he's just looking at art or learning things, he's reading very quickly or whatever. Yes, yes. There is some stuff at that, but yeah.
JoeWell, it starts with it first, it starts with um right the the match game, right? He's like, you know, there's shapes up here and shapes down there, pull the shape up that matches the shape up there, and Job has a bit of a hard time. But Dr. Angela is very encouraging to Job, I'll have to say that.
TomUm and uh if you are in our our Discord uh as we started our live chat for this recording, uh you can see what happens when Job gets one right at the beginning of the chat. Everyone's really happy.
JoeThey are very excited when Job gets one right.
TomUh so I'm gonna ask I'm gonna ask you guys a question. Because is Jeff Faye wearing a wig or is he just blowing his hair out as uh low IQ Job?
JoeWell, I don't think it's a wig because when Job becomes smart, he you know gets his hair all done all night.
TomYeah, it's done.
JoeAnd it's the same hair, I think. I mean, Jeff Faye he has long hair.
TomYeah, and it's a color sometimes.
JoeI mean his hair might be dyed. I don't know if that's an is that a natural hair color, it doesn't look like a natural hair color. It's like orangey a bit, right? It's a little orange. Or is that just a strawberry blonde?
unknownI don't know.
JoeWhatever, man. Well, when you become smart, you also get nice hair as well. You not only become good in bed, and you get jacked. You get well, no, I think Job is jacked beforehand. I don't think the well, that's a good question.
JenWell, you don't see it because he's got the overalls on with the store.
JoeWell, no, when he takes his shirt off for the when the priest whips him, you can see I think it's the same physique.
JenOh, okay. Okay.
TomUm he's strong.
JoeI I I've mowed lawns before. It doesn't make you look like that. Oh he does more than mow lawns.
JenWell, he fixes the landscaper. Does he carry heavy bags of dirt?
JoeI don't know. In this movie, all he does is cut grass. I don't know if I don't know if Terry I don't know if Terry allows him to do anything else.
TomHe has to climb all the way up to his house at the top of a hundred stairs.
JoeI don't think that's that many stairs, but okay. No, I don't know.
TomWhy is it Terry is Terry's at the beginning? He's like, oh man, you live so far up.
JenCan't just call him from the bottom.
TomHe is calling him as an answer. He's calling he's calling my halfway up. He's like, Job, Job. Job looking at the lawnmower.
JoeYeah, so uh eventually Job gets uh so good at the video games that he beats little Peter. Peter Parkett, by the way. Um and we get one of the one of my favorite movie tropes of all time. Uh when they're all like cheering that or excited that Job beat Peter, um Dr. Angelo musses up his hair.
TomOh yes.
JoeIt's great. Um after that, Job stands up for himself against the priest, right? The priest goes to he goes back to his house, and the priest is like coming for Job's daily whooping.
TomThe devil's in you, Joe.
JoeYeah. That's a line from the movie.
TomIt is, I know.
JoeThat's not Tom just being stupid. That's an actual line from this movie.
TomI know it's tough for you to understand, audience.
JoeTom didn't just come up with that on his own. That's an actual line in this movie. But Job's like, no more. He puts his hand up and he stops the priest from whipping him and um takes his whipping belt away. Yeah, priest is uh father. What the hell? I don't even know what his name is. Uh Father McKean. Well, there's there's two characters in here that that are Irish and were clearly Irish because they speak with brogues, and that's Father McKean and Terry Job's boss. I don't think Jeffrey Lewis is Irish. Um I don't know, let's see. No. Jeremy Slate, who plays Father McKean, is was born in California.
JenIsn't it?
JoeOh, yeah, they are brothers.
JenRemember, he said there's my brother giving you penance or whatever. That's right, they are brothers.
JoeOh my god. They're fucking brothers.
JenThey have the same last name, Joe. That's why they bought Brogues.
TomWait a second.
JenThe movie is both from Ireland.
JoeGive the movie Hill and it just blew my mind. I had no idea they were brothers. It's so much better written than I thought.
JenThey put a lot more thought into this than I mean. Father McKean and Terry McKean.
TomCome on, you can't even do two different last names for these guys.
JoeBoth? Well, I didn't know. To be honest, I had no idea what their fucking names were because of course not. They said it like once in the movie.
TomYes, they mentioned their brothers in the first time you see Terry, and then that's it.
JoeUh, you know, I want to be honest, they're not.
TomThey would interact. I don't even think they interact.
JoeAt the beginning of the movie, I had to like go step out of the room for a second, and I didn't pause the movie, so I might have missed that step.
JenOh my god.
JoeOh shit. Okay, sorry. They're brothers. That makes more sense. Well, that makes sense then, right? Because they both raised Job together then, I guess, right?
JenYeah.
JoeUh all right. Where were we again?
JenHe stops the priest from hurting him.
JoeOh, we were talking about how uh how how Job is in such great physical shape from mowing lawns and debating on whether he's allowed to do other landscaper type uh labor that maybe would give him a better, you know, physique.
JenWell, he also has jobs he does around the the the church because the priest is mad that he didn't kill the bugs and stuff.
JoeKill the bugs. Yeah. So great exercise.
JenYeah.
JoeMust be big bugs.
JenSpraying back and forth like a bunch of times, work your your bicep.
JoeYeah. Is it this point where we get some um we go back to the lab? Uh I want yeah. Can we talk about the lab?
TomYeah. This sets fucking awesome. I don't know. This is the best part of the movie. I'm not even kidding. The lighting is bizarre. I don't know why it's not a big thing.
JoeThey're in a scientific labor doing experiments. It's lit up like instead, we we should be in like a brightly lit room. No, it's not sound looflorescence recessed in walls.
JenIt's not scary in a bright room. Why is it supposed to be scary at the lab? It's like a com not it's not supposed to be, but for the purposes of the movie.
TomSee, Joe, the VR wouldn't work well if it was brightly lit, even though it's very well lit in his basement.
JoeUh his basement's better. Much better lit. I thought oh yeah, it is his basement, I guess. I kept thinking it's his garage, but she walks down the stairs. Yeah.
TomUm, yeah, no.
JoeAnd his his office, right? Dr. Angelo's office, it looks like uh it looks like they they literally like rented a warehouse out and didn't do any set design and just set put a desk in there and was like, This is your office.
unknownYeah.
JenI don't even remember what his office looks like.
JoeIt looks that's what it looks like. It looks like an old warehouse room that was abandoned, and they just put a desk in there and some lights and said, This is your office.
TomYou got the cool, the two like human gyroscope VR things, right? And then you've got like so Job, Job and Dr. Angelo walk in, and they're they're they're standing like on the like the box with the glass box above it, and there's like it's that, and then below it, it's a platform, and I'm like, oh, there's clearly like an elevator that goes down, and then Job's like, oh wow, and then runs out of the box, and I guess runs down a flight of stairs and walks in. Like, oh, okay, this is just a glass observation box, I guess. Uh that's fine.
JenUm Yeah, isn't that where um Tim's sees Jove doing like telekinesis from the observation deck.
TomTim's uh Baldy Oh Lex Luther. If Lex Luthor was a henchman, yeah.
JoeYeah, Tim. Okay, Tim's. Okay, I didn't even know that was I don't know anybody's name in this movie. You gotta watch closed captioning joke. Well, Jen, you know what? I turned it on, but it's d nothing happened. Um but they don't say the names a lot in this movie. I I feel like that's Dr.
TomAngelo, you hear a lot. And Joe's that's it.
JoeYes, yes, exactly. I and Peter, the boy Peter, and Marnie, I think you hear enough times. I don't hear Tim's name.
TomAnd I was saying I I did not know who Marnie, like when you said Marnie, I had to remember which one that was.
JoeYeah. And the the director is just the director.
TomYes, no name.
JoeHe doesn't have a name, no name at all.
TomUm what is Mrs. Parquet's name?
JoeCarla. Like all the women have C names. Carla, Caroline, um, well no, the other one, it's Marnie.
TomKamarnie.
JoeKamarnie. And um yeah.
TomSo And that's it, the three women in the film.
JoeYeah. So Job come so Job's, I guess, at his office. Uh at the office, at the lab, right? Is this when he first is this the point where he brings Job to the lab? Or does Job come looking for him at the lab?
TomNo, he brings Job to the lab first to start to advance the training. But wait, I think this is after Job's like, now that I'm starting to get smartish, I need to get cowboy boots and jeans.
JoeYeah, he mentioned something about a paycheck, and it's clear that that job is used his paychecks to to buy hair gel and cowboy boots and a big old belt. Um and then this is this is where he's mowing the lawn, topless, right? After this? Yeah, he's wearing jeans, a bigger, and cowboy boots to mow the lawn. And this is where we right, and this is where we get our in first interaction with Marnie.
TomYes.
JoeRight? She starts well no, she sees him earlier in the when he first mows the lawn and kind of ogles him for a little bit, but this is when this is when she calls him up into the house.
TomFor lemonade, right?
JoeShe mentions something about um I don't know, wait, that might be later. I might be I might be jumping in.
TomNo, she sees him, I think she sees him once before because what she calls him the house and rapes him immediately.
JenShe's drinking something or eating something the first time she sees him playing with it.
JoeYes.
JenWell, it I think confused.
JoeYeah, she mentions, does she say in this scene she's looking forward to having her lawn mode? Yes, yes, okay. Yes.
JenWell, she sees him at the gas station first.
JoeYes, that's what it is.
JenCalls him the lawnmower man.
JoeYes, and this is where she says you know, she's looking forward to having her lawn mode. Yes, it's it's at the gas again. All of the best lines happen at the gas station when Jake's there. All of them.
TomJake was secretly written by the writer, you know, played by the writer.
JoeHe's yeah, he's secretly the writer. Who is Jake anyway? In there, Jake John Laughlin. I don't know who that is. Um, but any scene that he's in, there's great stuff happening. So and then this is the line. This is it. This is at the gas station. The line where he says the the Terry McKean says uh women do it for money, but she's got money. She just likes doing it for fun. All the best lines here.
JenOh man.
JoeThen we get the scene of Job mowing the lawn and the dungarees, the cowboy boots, and the belt, and that's when Marnie calls him up to the her room, and we get the the most awkward kissing scene ever filmed.
JenYeah. Not good.
JoeThis is such a strange the kissing part.
TomGive me your tongue, Job.
JoeAnd he sticks out his tongue and she starts to kiss. Yeah. We get like a lot of tongue on tongue that's visual, and then she's like pushing it back in his mouth with her hand because he doesn't understand.
JenSo bad.
JoeI wonder how many times they did that scene.
TomAnd then and then they do a Sesame Street-esque soft and hard.
JenWell, he is far.
JoeShe calls him up to the room, and literally the next scene, they cut to her with her clothes almost all the way off, and they start kissing. I think they I think they you first see like a because she calls him up for lemonade. I think it cuts to like an empty glass of lemonade on the table and then pans over, and she's in her lingerie, uh getting, you know, and we get the kissing scene, and then they just have sex.
TomYeah.
JoeUm which I guess I don't know. I guess you gotta throw it in here. I don't I don't know why, but I don't know why. Well, you you need actually you do need this because it it pays off down the road, maybe.
JenDoes it it does just necessary?
JoeBecause we get the very first virtual reality uh uh Oh that that seems trippy and weird. The uh the very first virtual reality uh intimate scene together ever filmed.
JenOkay. But is that scene necessary?
TomWhere their faces get stuck together and they turn like the dragonfly.
JenHe melts her brain, basically. Oh, yeah, that's necessary. I thought she was dead until they got her out.
JoeShe's like, I guess, she's kind of like stuck, I guess, in a uh I don't know, a laughing fit forever. She just wants to.
JenShe wasn't laughing when you see her next. She's like laying on her bed, like just like giggling a bit. Out of it. She was giggling? Yeah.
JoeI think she giggles a little bit. And I think she's just stuck like that permanently. Yes, we do need that. We do need this because it shows how Job is getting too powerful too fast and can't control himself.
JenOkay, fine.
JoeBecause of it. And he kills the woman he loves. Or it doesn't kill her, but well, close enough.
TomDestroys her mind with his weird I don't even know.
JenI Yeah, I don't really understand even what happens.
TomI don't know what that is.
JenOh, yeah, it's like a monster that he becomes. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know.
TomJust like a ejaculates goo on her.
JenShe's like, No, that's no, she's like stuck in the goo.
JoeNo, he says that's that's their primal. What does he say? He calls it something. That's like their primal uh I don't I didn't write it down.
TomI know what you mean.
JoeYeah, there's a name for it. He says that's our primal, whatever, residue or something like that.
JenSure is. Yeah, I don't know.
JoeVery well, before we get to that though, right? Job Job starts to experience some VRPTSD and he learns that he can read people's minds at this point, right? This is where we get to Job's Job's learned how to read people's minds, and he's he's a little freaked out by it. Um, we get a scene with the director who wants uh who wants him to use the original Project 5 formula with the aggression with the aggression-inducing elements.
TomYes.
JoeSo Lex Luthor goes to Dr. Angelo's house, sneaks into his basement, and switches the nootropics in his refrigerator, and that uh Dr. Angelo inadvertently gives it to Job, not knowing that it's been switched, and things start to go even stranger. He he says that the new medication allows him to see God. He has like a bad trip where he sees God. We learn that that amount of brain swelling that happened to Job should have killed him, but instead it it didn't do anything. And then Job has telekinetic powers now.
JenYeah. So he can read minds and he has telekinesis.
TomAnd this is like when he also starts to see like more of the virtual world in the real world.
JenYeah.
JoeYes.
TomSo we have flashes of the virtual world.
JoeYeah. This is when, now right after this is when he brings Marnie to the VR lab. Yes. They turn they turn into some sort of dragonfly. Siamese dragonfly. Yeah. She gets stuck in the primal goo, he transforms into some sort of monster that sucks her brains, right?
TomOr you said vagina monster, looks like an at look like a butthole monster or some sort of thing, I don't know, which he said that's what she wanted.
JenYeah.
JoeBut he's very he's like, after it happens, like when he gets her out of it, he's like very um he's very distraught about what happened and regrets it immediately. Like he's like, I didn't mean to do that. I don't know what happened.
JenWell, he says too, like Dr. Angelo said we can't get hurt in here. But I guess like he's like so powerful with it that he can bring it into like the real world somehow.
JoeYeah, he and then he starts cutting the lawn using his mind, right? He's just standing there and the lawnmower is moving. This is kind of where we get a little we're starting to get into this actual story that it's based on.
TomRight. And this is also where you're like, oh well, that that's not gonna go well. Too many people have treated this guy poorly with a giant bladed machine to be psychically controlled.
JoeYeah. And then Job decides to go tell Dr. Ann. Angelo that anyway, he shows him that he he does the demonstration where he puts the chair down and he moves the chair with his mind to show Dr. Angelo what he can do now. And he ex this is when Job starts going full fucking psycho. Um, he mentions that he's like, This isn't new powers or they aren't creating new things. He says they're awakening ancient powers that like shamanists and alchemists and shamans and conjurers used long ago and that were lost, which is not a bad piece of writing. That little that line right there. I'll say that sometimes. Um, and he I think he says to Dr. Angelo that he's smarter than him now. Yes. Then we get then we go on the trip to Washington, DC.
TomRight, then is the bad time for me to have to leave. Don't leave. Yeah.
JoeUm this is where I recognize that the director was Dean Norris. Uh no establishing shots that were in Washington, D.C. And as you said, blast blaring sunlight coming through the windows is the only source of light in the office of the director. Lex Luther admits, or no, he doesn't admit, I'm sorry. Uh the director mentions about the Project 5 formula, and Dr. Angelo is all like, what? And Lex Luther's like, oh yeah, I switched the formula on you.
JenI was gonna tell you after the meeting.
unknownYeah.
JenSorry.
JoeI promised. I promised I was gonna tell you right.
JenRight after someone. I was just about to tell you. Yeah.
TomUh Angela Angela leaves, and then then uh henchman Luther goes, oh, by the way, uh, this guy's also got psychic powers.
JoeYeah. Yes. Um, then we cut to the story. Harold Park, we're we're going, we're in the parquet home. Not yet. Um, that's right. Lex Luthor confronts Piers. I'm just gonna call him that. Confronts Piers Brasen in his hotel room. Brasen literally blows smoke in his face.
JenYeah.
JoeUm, you mentioned the director's men come after Dr. Angelo. Uh this scene where he's the director's man has him like right, and he's walking him through like the the belly of the hotel or whatever, and down in the service hallways. There's like a waiter comes out with a bottle of champagne, and Pierce Bosni grabs the champagne and smacks the the security guard of the shop men. I don't know what you want to call them.
TomYeah. Yeah.
JoeUm, and then he takes the gun and he gives it to the waiter, and he's like, Yeah, he's like, keep him covered. And the waiter just stands there with like the gun, like points at the guy, like, what the fuck?
TomThe waiter doesn't take it.
JenSure, a stranger who I don't know. Yeah.
TomThis government agent had you under like oh, he's he's going to the bag. Never mind.
JoeI'll take this gun and and yeah, yeah, sure.
JenWhen he's walking through the lobby and the woman's like, Dr. Angelo, I have your messages. Dr. Angelo. That's Angelo, you right there, right there that I'm pointing at.
TomNo way, that that has no impact on anything, because then he just gets in the car and leaves.
JoeYes, it doesn't matter.
JenI love how fast he gigapul he's like he sits down in the car and just drives away immediately. Like how fast it is. I love that.
TomYes, my yeah, my keyless ignition doesn't go that fast.
JenUh all right.
JoeNow Job starts. Joe Bright finds the extra uh nootropics and starts. Yes, he just starts taking them. He's like injecting them into his neck. You think he injects like three or four of them into his neck. Um and then we get the confrontation with the priest, with Father McKean.
JenMm-hmm. Yes.
JoeThis is where he says that famous line, Tom.
TomThe devil's in you, too. He tells him that a lot, I think.
JoeHe says the devil's taking you, or something like that. Yeah. Which is which I made a note that I think this is the first true thing that the priest says in the whole entire movie.
TomAnd I will say, as soon as he realizes, like when Job starts glowing, he immediately is like, Father, I'm sorry, I've sinned so much. Like I've uh I shouldn't have been beaten in this kid. Uh he's like, not that he feels actual remorse, but he's like, Well, I realize I'm gonna die soon. Let me try and get this in before I burst into flames.
JenPixelated flames. That's right.
JoeDigital flames. Job sets the priest on fire. Uh, and as a 13-year-old boy, I can say, Yay, fucking A. Um, as bad as it looks, kind of in the movie. That's right. Catholic school boy.
JenIt's supposed to look bad, right? It's not like real fire.
TomYeah, it's what I'm saying. It's digital fire. He's bringing the virtual world into the real world. As we'll see in his later murders after tonight.
JenYes.
JoeWell, well, we get the next murder. He goes to visit his old friend Jake at the gas station.
TomYeah, I think Jake's alive. Jake's alive. Jake's alive. The cops say later on he's just wandering around.
JoeOh, they did. I thought they said I thought they were talking about um.
TomShe's also catatonic.
JoeShe's also wondering.
TomOh, no, they don't say about Jake. They say she's wandering around. Yeah. Um, oh, he she must have seen one of the murders and been in shock.
unknownYeah.
JenI think he's alive. He's just like. Yeah. He his brain got lawn mowed.
JoeSimultaneously awesome and stupid at the same time. He pulls him, I guess, into the uh well, I don't know what he does. He looks at his eyes, and then you start seeing his eyes as like the virtual avatar of Job. And then and then all of a sudden, Job virtually mows Jake's brain with a lawnmower. That's what happens.
JenYes.
JoeHe virtually mows his brain.
JenAlright, well, that's not gonna work anymore after that.
TomAnd then he says, uh, I've I'm in your brain now, you're mine.
JenYeah.
JoeYeah, that's fucking awesome. That's such a cool, it's it's so weird, but awesome. It's so weird. It is cool.
TomThat's a whole virtual.
JoeIt's great. And then now we get Harold Parquette. Now we go to the Parquet home where he's watching wrestling instead of baseball, um, in the book.
JenVery, very gently puts the wife and son to sleep so they don't have to witness this or be a part of it in any way.
JoeYeah, well, Job has no beef with them.
JenNo.
TomHe's doing it for them.
JoeRight. Yeah. Uh we get the appearance of the Budweiser, which is where I noted that we have Corus Light and Budweiser in this movie. Uh probably a first or last in movie history. Um, and then this is where we get our this is where we get the book, right? Oh, I should say the short story, right? The lawnmower bursts into the room, into the house, chases Harold around the room, um, and kills Harold. And it's almost like, like they even do the scene where he runs out through the backyard and the lawnmower kind of like leaps off the steps at him, which is what happens in the book.
TomAnd and it's found he's found mostly by the birdbath.
JoeYeah, the cops pretty much recite the lines from the book.
TomYeah.
JoeUm, because then yeah, the next scene is the cops, right? You have the medical Xamarin and white coat, and he says about the bird, he says the rest of them is it's try the birdbath. Um he talks about uh psycho, what does he say? Uh schizophrenics.
JenYeah.
JoeHe uses the word schizophrenics, and it's it's literally dialogue right from the book. Um, which is this is might be one of the best scenes of the movie, the cops.
TomYeah, they're great. Um we're saying, I think we were saying in our last episode, like they're they're the like the the lieutenant is probably the only other character who seems like a real person uh in like his brief scene until Joe wipes his mind.
JoeThey've got the property kind of taped off, and they just let Dr. Angelo just walks through under there, and he's like, uh oh, I live next door. He's like, What happened? And he and the cop's just like, Oh, I'm glad you're here.
TomUh save us from having to walk 10 feet to question you.
JoeYes, I'm glad you're here inside the crime scene. Dr.
TomAngelo in this scene never says, I was away at Washington, I just got home. What's going on? No, in no way gives himself any sort of alibi for not murdering his neighbor. And the clue is just like, oh yeah, let me tell you what happened.
JoeWell, he just drives down the street, right? And they just let him through, right? He's drive that's how the scene starts, I think, right? He's driving down the street, he sees the cops, they wave him through, he goes, maybe that's what it is. Yeah, yeah, he drive, he parks into his driveway, he parks his driveway, and then he walks over um and asks what happens, and then you get the whole conversation with the cops about schizophrenics, and he talks about Marnie, um, and I guess the Jake murder, I guess. I don't he did mention another priest, he talks about the priests.
TomAnd then, like, Marnie must have seen one of the murders, and it Yeah.
JoeUm, and then we get another scene where it we get another scene with Dr. Angelo and Job in VR. This is where Oh Job's in the VR.
TomJob's in the VR, Dr. Angelo comes in, and Job realizes that Dr. Angelo knows the shop is coming for him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like traps Dr. Angelo in the wraps him up in a chair and gags him.
JoeWell, Job says something to the effect of that like inside the VR is like the utopia man has dreamed of.
TomBut he also says, like, I'm gonna go there and I'm gonna upload myself.
JoeInto the mainframe computer. Yeah. They mentioned a mainframe computer in this movie. This was when mainframe computers were a thing.
TomThat's right. A thing that he has to bypass to get out into the into the greater web.
JoeThe term mainframe immediately evokes something serious in m in movies back in these in these.
JenYou gotta hack into it or you're not gonna get anything done.
JoeThe mainframe.
JenGotta hack into that mainframe.
JoeSo uh he says that this is you the utopia man has dreamed of. We saw what it's like in that virtual reality world. I'm not sh it doesn't look like any utopia that I want to be a part of.
TomYeah. I agree with you.
JoeAnd here's the question. This is the philosophical question in the movie here. Or I don't know if it's either here or might be a little bit later. But Dr. Angelo says he's just having a psychotic break.
TomYeah.
JoeIs he really having a psychotic break? Or no.
TomWell, I think the psychotic break is you're murdering people, Job. That's the psychotic break. Yeah, I guess it's the aggression drugs, right? And yeah, and the I think his thought of like being a god and being building this utopia. He's like, he's like, that's the first sign of this, is like these kind of you know, these these messiah complexes.
JenYeah.
JoeYeah. It's got a lot in common with Dune, I think.
TomYeah, it's the theme of our uh podcast, really.
JoeThe uh the glowing VR suit is pretty cool looking.
JenIt is. Yeah, it glows like right when he's about to kill somebody.
TomRight as he uses his VR power.
JoeI was thinking if like anybody well, at first I thought, like, oh man, do they sell that? I wanna wear I want to be Job for Halloween.
JenI said the same thing. I was like, Dan, you should dress up like this for Halloween.
JoeAnd get a wig? Yeah. Um and then I thought, like, I I wonder, I don't remember this being like a costume during Halloween, like at Halloween around that time.
TomUm I feel like you can get like a like a like a Tron costume.
JoeBut then people are gonna say, well, to be honest, he looks like Tron. Yes. I I would say if I wore that costume for Halloween, people would be like, what are you, from Tron?
TomYou have to take away the Tron helmet and put on the yellow wig and have a lawnmower.
JoeI'm just gonna mow my lawn wearing that suit at night. Yeah.
JenLight it up. Tom, you could crawl reflective tape on it.
JoeYou can crawl behind the lawnmower and eat the grass clippings.
TomI will I'll be naked uh Seder for Halloween. Everyone's gonna love this party.
JoeWe'll all be we'll all be characters from the lawnmower man. Jen, you could be you could be Caroline Angelo. Or you could be Marnie, it's up to you.
JenNo, I don't want to be Marnie.
JoeOkay. You could be Dolly, the uh the the the waitress at the diner. Yeah, the fourth woman in this film.
TomUm Dr. Angelo, your messages.
JoeThe concierge at the hotel.
unknownThat's what I'm gonna be.
JoeTom, you could be Dr. Angelo. You just come with your glasses and a uh, you know, don't shave for a day. Bring some bring some bring some nootropics and uh bourbon.
TomYou know what I admire about Pierce Bros in in this film, mentioning his glasses, and I think this is a good point because he this is he does it, I think, one more time by this point. Most actors, if they've got glasses as a prop, will take the glasses off to to be a like an emotional beat, some dramatic thing. Yeah. He puts the glasses on. And I appreciate that, Pierre Cross.
JoeWell, clear, yes, if you have the glasses on, you're taken more seriously. So it would make sense that if you want somebody to like really listen and hear you, yeah, that this is important, you would put the glasses on to be like, listen, I'm wearing glasses.
TomRight.
JoeThis means yes, this means I'm smart and you should listen to what I'm gonna say.
TomExactly. There are times where it looks like there's no lenses in them, but that's fine.
JenI'm sure there isn't.
JoeUh I think sometimes, well, yeah, maybe sometimes there is, sometimes there isn't. I don't know.
TomUm I think there's a scene where he's taking them out of his shirt pocket. I'm not even kidding, and the thumb goes through like where the lens would be.
JoeWe start leaning heavily into the VR world at this point, right?
TomThis is where like it all bled.
JoeWe get the giant VR head, right? So they're at Dr. Angelo's, the shop men are coming. Job projects a giant VR head of himself out in front of Dr. Angelo's house, and then he defragments them digitally.
TomThe two security nice defrag reference.
JoeI don't know what he does. I don't know. Like that's the only word word I could think of to describe it.
TomSo, like the first guy, it's like, yeah, he gets all like bubbled up disintegrated. The second guy, the same thing happens, but first he tears open his shirt and he's got a swirling vortex inside of him.
JoeOh yeah.
TomAnd somehow the director can just see this stuff from Washington? I think a free-floating camera somewhere. I don't know.
JoeI oh yeah, he's got cameras everywhere. I mean, we're we're really advanced here, right? We're talking about like the the net, you know, we're getting into in internet type. I think there's a there's a mention, oh yeah, somebody job says it. He job says it actually in the line after this. He's I have a note here. Job accurately predicts that by 2001 everyone will will be connected to the planetary network, he says.
JenYeah, he was right.
JoeThis movie, I'm telling you, it's way ahead of its time.
TomBefore he murders these people and leaves, he he explains the plan, right? The plan is to go upload himself into the mainframe.
JoeAt the shop.
TomAt the shop, no, at the at the VRI, the visual, yeah, VRI, yes.
JoeThat's I forgot that that's what this place is called. It's mentioned a bunch of times, VRI. No, VSI, VSI, VSI, yeah, sorry. Virtual Scientific Institute. Scientific Institute, yeah. Something like that.
TomYeah, and so the VSI, and like leaving his corporal body behind, becoming one, and then from the mainframe getting out into the real world where you'll know that he succeeded because every phone will ring. And then like eventually, since there isn't a worldwide web network at this point, he'll eventually get to the place where he'll he's everywhere. Yes. He'd have to take him a few steps. And like they're like, uh, nope.
JenThere's not really clear denied.
JoeYeah, there's yeah, we see a lot of that. There's no clear end game in the sense of like that's his goal, but he doesn't he doesn't really elaborate on what what does that do? Yeah, what he intends to do right with that.
TomUm are you if I picked up the phone, would you answer it? I said I don't know.
JoeYeah. Um, so he he defrags the guys. Um, we're we're really getting I feel like we're starting to get into like template preset effects. Like the the director's just like, oh, let me what what does this effect do? And presses the button and this does it's oh cool, let's put that in there. That's what starts happening in this movie. Um Joe melts the steering, he melts the engine of the car, and then he melts the steering wheel of the of the truck.
JenYeah, he melts the steering wheel of the guy's car, like the shop car, and he melts I think he melts uh Dr. Angelo's engine, if I was watching it correctly.
JoeYes, yes.
JenJust so he can't follow him.
JoeBut then he gets the shop men have come though with a case of explosives.
JenYep.
JoeUm that they just brought with them, because that's they just carry that around with them in case they need to blow a building up or anything. Or I don't know, were they going there to blow up Dr. Angelo's house?
TomUh maybe.
JoeWell, I think I thought they wanted Job, right? Didn't he want Job alive? I I don't know what anyone, what the endgame for anybody in this movie is really, except Dr. Angelo. He clearly wants to use this to uh help learning, and um he mentions like uh brain diseases like Alzheimer's and things like that and disabilities, and he wants to use it you know to help people. That's the only person who who I know what their goal is in this movie.
TomUm Caroline wants to go to the city.
JoeCaroline and the city.
unknownYeah.
JenShe gets Oh my god.
JoeShe gets her own, she gets her own show. Leah Thompson. Um yeah, that's yeah. I mean, I guess the shop wants to use this for nefarious purposes to make a monkey army, a chimp army. Um to win the Gulf War. They want to make a chimp army chimps and humans killing together.
JenChimps are a means to an end, they're not part of the army.
TomI think if the if the shop had three good chimps that could be super assassins, they'd take them.
JoeMaybe this is the precursor to uh like an alternate lead up or fanfiction, the planet of the apes.
TomYeah. I'm with you.
JoeYeah. So then uh let's see, what do we got, dude? Job arrives at VSI in the landscaping truck. He has Terry come and pick him up. He like calls Terry telepathically.
JenYeah.
JoeHas Terry pick him up. Um the truck is trailed by a bunch of VR particles that are a cloud of VR particles. They're both doesn't the bugs come later? Doesn't he then turn them into bugs?
JenWhen he gets in the car, he sees a stuffed bee on the on the dashboard. So like bees or some kind of bugs following them, and then the bugs, they do nothing. I'm like, okay, the bugs aren't doing anything, they're just accompanying them. But then once they get through, they the bugs turn around and form like a bug wall and then start killing the guys, I guess. But I don't know why he couldn't have just killed all of them himself without using VR bugs, but I guess it's something different.
JoeSo when he gets there to VSI, a security guard shoots at him and kills Terry.
JenOh man. The worst part of the movie. Saddest, saddest part of the movie for sure. Saddest part, I should say, yeah.
JoeNot the worst part. Yeah. This is definitely not the worst part of the movie. Terry. Much worse parts. Poor Terry gets shot, and then Joe uses his mind power to make the guy point the rifle at his face and shoot himself in the head. Yeah.
JenDeserved.
TomI'm watching it and I'm like, that's a really long rifle. How is he gonna get that in his mouth? And he doesn't. He just gets to the top of his head and shoots himself.
JoeYeah. He then traps Lex Luthor in some sort of weird, permanent, deconstructive defragmentation loop.
JenForever. Yeah, he's just like in and out. Worse than being defragmented once.
JoeYeah. It comes back together, defragmented over and over. Yeah, it must be, it's probably horrible experience.
JenAnd then he probab he probably comes back right as uh the whole building is exploding.
JoeYeah, he's gonna die at some point. Well, I mean, Pierce Brosnan starts setting those explosives at VSI, and he's he's only gives himself 15 minutes.
TomI know. Well, he's not, I want to be killing, he's gonna die. He's not trying to get out. Well, that's why why doesn't he just set the explosives and leave? Because he's trying to keep Job there. He wants you to make sure that Job.
JoeWhy doesn't he just set him for five minutes then?
TomSo like his well, whatever. I think that that's fine too. I don't know, but like his plan, his plan is I'm gonna go in, I'm gonna talk to Job and distract him so he doesn't get out, and then this is gonna kill us both, right?
JoeYeah, well it's a it's a bad plan because he could just set it for like five minutes and run out, and Job will the building will blow up with Job in it.
JenHe doesn't know how if Job he doesn't know what Job's doing for five minutes. He could be gone already.
JoeSo then why sets for 15 minutes?
JenBecause he sets the first ones for fifteen. He needs time to get into he's setting all of them. He sets this one for fifteen, then he walks over here, sets another one for fifteen. Yeah, he's getting a few. That's why some of them go off first, and they have a chance to get out before the whole building comes down.
JoeWell, shouldn't he Start as cl as close as possible to Job, set it for like four minutes, three minutes, and then leave.
JenI don't know. I don't know. Whatever he did worked, okay? Except not really.
JoeIt didn't work. So did you watch the end of the movie?
JenExcept it didn't work at all.
JoeThere's a sequel to this movie as well. Um I do have to say, Job, like the VR avatar of Job, which is the background of her thing, is pretty fucking cool in this movie. It's probably the coolest thing in this movie. You know, these scenes at the end where they're in, it's I mean, the encounter between him and Dr. Angelo in the VR world is kind of cheesy, but it's kind of cool too.
TomIt is.
JoeYou know what I thought of when Job first goes into the VR and he kind of, like you said, like kind of enters it. It reminded me of like the Wheel of Time. He where he entered Teleranriad in the flesh, basically, is what I was liking it to. Except he left kind of like a husk. A husk.
JenAlmost, almost like uh the prestige. He left a husk behind.
JoeHe left the husk behind. Oh it was like a shriveled up.
JenYeah, it kind of just disintegrated, right? Like a dehydrated husk.
JoeUm and then Peter, right? So I forgot. When Dr. Angelo gets a ride to VSI from Carla, Parquet, and little Peter, and he says, All right, you all gotta leave here. She's like, I'm gonna wait for you down by the road. He's like, No, no, you gotta leave.
TomYeah.
JoeBecause you're right, he's he's not planning on coming back. So then Mrs. Parquette, Carla, she just drives a little bit down the road and just like, uh, this is a good place to stop, right?
JenI'll take a nap.
JoeYeah. She falls asleep. Peter's like, I'm gonna go run in there. But to be honest, Peter saves the day, I think, right?
JenBecause Yeah, he probably wouldn't have let him go if Peter wasn't there. He let him go to save Peter.
JoeYes, and he unlocks the door for them to so Peter can so they can get out. Yeah. Um, because Job still likes Peter. There's still some good inside him.
JenYeah. He doesn't want to see any more death.
JoeYeah.
JenThat's what he says. I don't know if it's true or not, but at least he doesn't want Peter to die.
JoeYeah. Um, the bombs go off. Well, well, right, Job is trying to get into the the mainframe, or I I don't know what he's trying to do. He's trying to upload himself to the mainframe and he keeps getting access denied.
JenYeah, because he hacked into it already. Dr. Angelo hacked into it from home, I think, or something before they left and put up like he put a virus in there or something to block them, right? Yeah. To block him from getting access.
JoeBut then he finally finds a back door.
JenA backdoor. Yeah, of course he does.
JoeYes.
JenOne little backdoor.
JoeThis this shoot through. Which we learn about from the movie War Games, uh, which is years before this. Um no, but here's a failing of the movie. And I know there are many. It was very clear that Job escapes. Yeah. Which I thought was a bad choice, right? He should have been still, it should have been him trying to do it, right? Maybe you see one where he sees like he finally hits one that says access, you know, granted, and then it should have cut away and the building should have blown up. Like they actually showed him uploading. Like you clearly know he escapes because he uploads. They should have, they shouldn't have shown that because I think it'll it would have made the ending of a better payoff at the end of it.
JenJust the phones ringing.
JoeWell, because because it should be ambiguous. You should be like, oh, we think he's dead. And then at the end, the phones ring.
JenYeah, yeah.
JoeNow the phone ringing is still very cool.
JenYeah.
JoeBut I feel like they really, they really missed an opportunity there by showing him, making it very clear that he escaped in the scene.
JenYeah.
TomI agree.
JenI definitely like when he when he said the thing about the phone, I was like, that's gonna be the last shot of the movie. Yeah.
JoeIt's so awesome. It's it's it's the best part of the movie, I think, is it's just like the all the phones start ringing, and then they cut to like all all over the world where the phone's ringing, and you're like, Yes. Um are you? Yeah, just because it was so cool.
JenOkay.
TomDown with the proletariat.
JoeYeah. I mean, this movie ends. I mean, I guess there's not a lot of thought into the ending of the movie in the sense of like well they just blow up the building. Like that happened. That's like uh what what do we do at the end? Oh, let's just blow the building up. It's that's what they do in movies.
JenYeah, Pierce Brosnan gets his nice new family, and uh that's that. And Job is in the mainframe.
JoeYep.
JenHe's free.
JoeHe's free, and that's the end of Lone Mower Man.
TomThere you go.
JenExactly what Stephen King envisioned.
JoeThe parallels are amazing. Word for word. Uh there's so there's some interesting uh fun facts about this movie.
TomOh, are they?
JoeYeah. I mean, we talked about the litigation. Uh so fun. Yeah, that was fun. We talked a little bit about how uh Angel Studios, which was the studios that used this, that did the VFX for this, um, was acquired by Rockstar Games. Yeah. And they were involved in develop developing the Red Dead Red Dead Resemption in the whole series. Yeah. Would it surprise you that this movie was a commercial success?
TomYes.
JoeSo we said it right, it was a $10 million budget. The movie made $32 million.
JenAll right. I yeah, no, it doesn't surprise me.
TomI would I wouldn't be surprised if it had a fairly big opening weekend because it didn't look low quality, like the the advertising and stuff. It looked cool and weird and everything. Then you saw it. I can't imagine anybody after the first weekend going to see the film.
JoeUm opening weekend in US, Canada was 7.7 million. So it wasn't she it wasn't huge.
JenIs that like overseas too? Three 32 million?
JoeIMDB has it 32 million worldwide, which means which leads me to believe that it didn't open anywhere outside of the US and Canada.
JenEngland? Does Pierce Brosnan have fans maybe that would want to see him?
JoeI don't know. Ireland, I said. It says the countries of origin. What? It says countries of origin, UK and Japan. Did they film this in the UK? No, they filmed this in California. Yeah. I was about to say this is clearly filmed on like a studio in California.
TomCalifornia.
JoeSo yeah, this movie was somewhat of a success. They made a sequel to this.
JenWhich we're gonna talk about right now.
JoeNo, I didn't I didn't I did not see the sequel. Um would it surprise you to say that uh film reviewers heavily criticized the theatrical release of this movie?
JenThis one or the or the this movie.
JoeNo, this movie. Um, no, okay. It wasn't a hard question, Jess.
JenOkay.
JoeUh would you be surprised to know that this film has a 35% score on Rotten Tomatoes?
JenUm 35? That's a little high, but That's a little high.
JoeWell, uh, let's see. So Richard Harrick Harrington from the Washington Post uh observed that the movie was so loosely based on a Stephen King short story as to constitute fraud.
JenKind of it was. I mean, they took they bought the rights, used the name of it, and then didn't and then put it on a slapped it on another movie.
JoeLike critics.
JenThat's why he got sued.
JoeYeah. Leonard Malton awarded the film 1.5 out of four stars, noting that Fehey's performance was tough to take and highlighting its total divergence from literary source material. Yes. Well, no doubt. But I have to say, like, general audiences, they kinda embrace the movie, the the the visual spectacle. Remember, this is like kind of like breaking new ground in terms of like visual uh experimentation. Um, obviously, Stephen King readers disapproved of this.
TomYes.
JoeClearly, and it you know, I think people who enjoy this movie enjoy it for what it is.
JenYou know, nostalgic reasons, maybe?
JoeYeah, all yes, nostalgic reasons, and also I guess like it's a cool premise that's just poorly executed, but it's got some kind of zany things that happen in it that you can always be like, oh, this is so bad, it's kind of good in a in a way.
JenI have to admit, when I understood what was happening, he was gonna go after all the bad people. I was enjoying that. You know, that was a good feeling.
JoeHolger in chat is pointing out that this is 10 years after Tron. That was new ground. I feel like this was this was taking in the next step after Tron.
TomYeah, Tron Tron was traditional animation designed to look like computer animation, right?
JoeIt's also a lot of practical stuff in Tron, right? It's just like light laser type work that's Yeah.
unknownYeah.
JoeAnd this is this is like this is VR, is obviously a heavily featured and you know, element to this movie, too. Like that, I mean, I don't think there were any other movies about VR before this movie.
TomThis was definitely one of the first. I mean, that that's the whole thing. Like the the the writer and director were big believers in VR being the the technology of the future.
JoeAnd I've saved the best fun fact for last. David Thibodeau, does anyone here know who David Thibodeau is? Nope. He was a survivor of the 1993 Waco Siege, and he detailed in his memoirs that Koresh was obsessed with this movie and screened it regularly at the Mount Carmel compound.
TomUnbelievable. Great. That's the biggest endorsement you can get. David Koresh's favorite film.
JoeAll right, and there's I I don't know if this is true, but I read somewhere that he actually integrated parts of the film into his sermon.
JenThe devil is in you?
JoeWell, I think it was more of a simple a simple man who undergoes mind-expanding experiments, transcending human limitations and becomes a godlike force.
TomJust like me. Like me.
JoeYes.
TomAll right, man.
JoeSo here you go, everybody. If you're interested in watching David Koresh's favorite film, or one of his favorite films, then you have to watch Lawnmower Man.
JenYou should put that on like the tape box. David Koresh, four stars.
JoeRemove Stephen King's name off of it and put David Koresh.
JenDavid Koresh is the Lawnmower man.
JoeDavid Koresh's favorite movie.
JenOh my god.
JoeUh yeah. No.
JenNo.
JoeYeah. Yeah, that's that's exactly right, Tom. Oh my gosh. All right. Are we ready to uh I mean, is there anything else you want to talk about it before we score this? Give this our ratings.
TomI think I'm we're good with ratings.
JoeYou ready?
JenYeah, I'm ready.
JoeGo for it. Who wants to go first?
JenI'm gonna go first. I am gonna give this a 1.5 out of five stars. Um it's definitely a movie that has a slightly coherent storyline and made entertain me a little tiny bit. Um so for that it will have 1.5 out of 5 stars.
JoeThis is the this is your lowest rated movie yet, Jen. Ever? Your lowest rated adaptation. Yeah, I mean that's I mean I don't have the we uh I don't have the numbers documented for the early stuff, but those were the Hedge Knight and Dune, which I don't think you put any of those lines.
JenNo, I don't think I gave that a 1.5, so Tom?
TomI guess I will go next. Um there are movies that are so bad they're good. There's there's clearly we mentioned Wolf Cop. There are clearly movies that are worse than this. I want to be clear. This is one of the worst films I've ever seen in my life. Really? Like it's there's nothing worse. There's yeah, but like they had money. Not a lot of money, but they had money. They had acting talent. This was one of the worst directed, worst shot, worst written, worst edit, uh, worst produced things. And they spent uh it looks like all the resources went into like but this VR effects are gonna look dope when they're in the VR world. And I think that was clearly much like Dr. Angelo himself, their obsession with virtual reality came at the cost of everything else. I want to give this movie one half of a star. Wow. Really?
JoeYes.
TomI want to say that I I I do not recommend anyone watch it.
JoeOkay. That's that's my this is your lowest rating as well.
JenYes, I I don't think you can go much a quarter star.
JoeI will say this.
TomI hope to not go lower on this show.
JoeI agree with everything you said, Tom, basically. Um on a different level. I feel the failing of this movie, for it to be this movie could have been so bad it's awesome. Yes, if they would have kind of tightened it, tightened it up a bit. Like there's a there's a bunch of like just nothing happening type things that you know, and the music was better. I think if I think if this movie was edited better and the music was better, this could have been like a cult classic type movie.
TomI agree. And or or I'll go the other way. If like every person in the movie was an actor the caliber of the guy who played the gas station attendant, Jake. Jake, and was like, like if if if Dr. Angelo was like an actor of Jake's caliber, delivering lines like with enthusiasm, but no real training, that would have made it so bad it's good. You know what I mean? Like that would have made it like a wolf cop kind of like there's nobody here who knows what they're doing, but we're all trying really hard, right? Kind of a vibe. And like the fact that it has a sheen of professionalism in parts of it is what I think prevents it from getting to that level.
unknownOkay.
TomIf every scene was the scene of like, I'm gonna teach you how to French kiss.
JoeIf every scene was that level, all right. I I slightly disagree because I I don't I don't think you need to do that. I'm telling you, if I watch I challenge somebody to take this footage and re-edit it and make a better movie, and I think it can be done.
JenBut maybe the director's cut is uh No, it's longer.
JoeI'm I'm talking about it.
JenNo, but maybe it's edited better, like like just better.
JoeNo, what's doing this? What's the word C Joe? No, director's cut. Because I was trying, I don't know, was this on the recording or was this before?
JenI think this.
JoeSo I was talking about how I went to watch this movie yesterday, and I go to turn it on, and it's the director's cut, and I'm like, but on my thing, it said it was the short version, but when I opened it up, it was the director's cut version. So then I'm like trying other play, I couldn't find the regular version. So I found it on like Zumo.
JenI watch it on Tubi.
JoeYeah, that's what Tom did too. Um, but the reason I knew it was the director's cut when I first turned it on the originally was there was a screen, it was just like literally like uh a what do they call it? Chiron. It's just this is the direct, this is an extended edition of director's cut. Some of the editing is we basically some of the editing is weird. There are jump cuts and things like that. That's because you know we put we put extra footage in it and it basically didn't fit right.
TomOh boy.
JoeBasically is what it says.
TomThey just drop scenes in without making a coherent film.
JoeSo some so all right, so quickly, some of those scenes that I've found or that I've read about, right? So in the beginning, the monkey doesn't get shot in the lab. The monkey escapes and goes to Job's home, and Job finds the monkey, and there's there's actually a photo I found of of Job and the monkey in front of his in front of his shack. Um, and the the the security from the lab show up and Dr. Angelo shows up, and that's how Job meets Dr. Angelo.
JenOkay.
JoeUm, also in the regular theatrical version, Doc Dr. Angelo's wife leaves him, but in the director's cut, she goes out with her friends, right? Because she said she's I think she said she was gonna go with her friends, right, or something. Or my imaginary city. Yeah, I don't know. Dr. Angelo follows her to her car and she leaves. Then he talks to Peter's mom, which which is uh Carla Parquette, and they talk about how Peter reminds him of himself at that age. Oh um, Dr. Angelo asks his wife where Job is, and she does not respond because she's under Job's control.
JenWait, in the beginning?
JoeI don't know at what point, Jen. I I don't have the director's cut. These are just some scenes that got cut.
JenOh, okay.
JoeAlso, there's a scene where the agents are going to pick up Job and Dr. Angelo when Job tells Dr. Angelo, now you will witness the impossible and makes Dr. Angelo watch his wife kill an agent and is then killed by the other two while he watches through VR.
TomSo his wife is just in the whole movie in this version.
JoeI guess she's in more of the movie, and then she gets killed then.
JenOh my god. She's living her best life in the regular version.
JoeThat's it. Yeah. Yeah.
JenOkay, good. Excellent.
JoeDid I give my rating yet? No, I didn't. I was in the middle of giving my rating. I'm gonna give this a two. Okay. I think it's it's not a good movie, but it's entertaining. And some of the stuff happens in here is just like so wild that it's fun. Respectable.
TomRespectable, bad rating.
JoeRespectable, bad rating. Uh successful adaptation? No. No. No, no, no.
JenNot even an adaptation?
unknownNo.
TomYeah, I think right. This is this is we've now clearly established a line of like I think anything, like we we're gonna have to figure out like, does this pass the lawnbower man test of adaptation for any future thing that we're thinking of looking at?
JoeYeah. So I mean uh the lawnmower line. This is the the worst, I believe, so far that we've given uh Oh yeah, yeah. Uh let's hold on. I'm pulling, I'm pulling up here some uh doing some math here in Google Sheets.
TomWhat else? Have we ever picked another movie that we all thought was not a good adaptation?
JoeYes. So I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you right now. So this is the worst. Um then the next worst, well actually, no, this can't be right. This is tied.
JenWhat?
JoeOh no. They uh it's uh yeah, this is actually tied with another movie that we did.
JenWhat is that?
JoeCan you can you think? Can you remember what that movie is? A movie that I think is dog shit and I hate it so much.
TomIs it um The Hobbit?
JoeThe Hobbit movie, the first Hobbit movie. We we gave it the same scores, though, we're in reverse order. So I gave it a 0.5.5. Tom, you gave it a 1.5 and Jen gave it a 2.
TomThere you go. Okay. How do you like that?
JoeYes, the Lawnmower Man is a better movie than The Hobbit. Come on. And The Hobbit 2. And The Hobbit, the second Hobbit movie. No, no, it isn't really. I would rather watch The Lawnmower Man. That's not the same thing. If you put a gun to my head and said you have to watch one of these movies, if it was the first Hobbit movie or Lawnmower Man, I would pick Lawnmower Man.
JenOkay, but that's not the that's not the same thing. The Hobbit is not a worse movie than the Lawnmower Man.
JoeAlright, if I was trapped on an island and I only had one movie to watch, and I had to choose either The Hobbit or the Lawnmower Man. This is the only movie I can watch for the next, I don't know, 10 years. I would pick the Lawnmower Man.
JenBut that's you don't like The Hobbit and you'd like the Lawnmower Man. But you can't look at those two movies and say that the Lawnmower Man is a better movie than The Hobbit.
JoeWell, if I like it one better, then I can say it's better.
TomJoe can say whatever he damn will be. No, I will not allow that.
JoeDo what I demo please, Jen.
TomAbsolutely batshit insane as it may be.
JoeWell, Tom, you gave this uh you gave this a 1.5 rating.
TomI would never see the Laud Mower Man again if I can help it. Like it was I think it's important for us to pick movies like this every now and again or The Hobbit.
JoeWell, we have to, we're not like stuck up cultured people where we're like, we're only gonna pick, you know, uh boutique upscale movies where we're like, no, we're doing all the adaptations. This was an attempt at adaptation? I don't know. This was a forced adaptation, and I know there was a question, you know, the question of like, can is this actually considered an adaptation? Um, if a production company options literary work and then just changes it so much that it's unrecognizable to the original work, should there be some sort of trademark law that prevents them using the author's name and saying, you know, saying like based on or whatever the source material.
TomI guess the question is if the author has successfully sued to have his name removed from a film, should we consider that film an adaptation? We do here on top of the screen, at least we have.
JoeYeah. Well, I mean, on IMDB, Stephen King's name is the writing credits. I don't know why. I'm surprised he doesn't sue by her.
TomCharacter names, probably, literally.
JenUm, I mean, you didn't know though. Like, you just assumed that the that the story was this. So you know, you didn't know that this was not really a real adaptation until until we picked it and looked into it. I'm curious, like Tom knew with my warning.
TomWith my warning that that it was very, very, very, very like the the book was very Yeah. Did you think any elements of the story would be found in the in in any elements of the film, did you think anything would be in the short story?
JoeLike you know, it's gonna be I read that short story yesterday And I was like, what is going on? How did this turn into this movie? I because I didn't remember the movie. Like I remembered scenes from the movie, right? I didn't I don't I didn't remember the whole parquet house scene with the lawnmower and the cops after. I was like, oh, this is exact when I watched it, I was like, oh, this is exactly from the book, basically. This is the only part of it that's from the book. Um, or the story. I was totally like, I guess, uh apoplectic is the word, maybe, when I was reading this story. Not not even just not just at the departure from the movie, but the actual story in and of itself.
JenI I just think it's hilarious. I will I would love to have been a fly on the wall when they were like, he's gotta kill somebody with the lawnmower. They were like, but he's like, he has psychic powers. He's like virtually killing people, ripping them apart into pixels, and they were like, he has to kill someone with the lawnmower. Like you've got to put that in. You have to put that in. He's like, all right, he'll kill one guy with the lawnmower. Like, it doesn't make any sense for him to kill somebody with the lawnmower.
TomI imagine the directors like their first like, or how about we virtually we use virtual lawnmowers to get somebody? No. Like, not good enough. I need a lawnmower to kill somebody.
JenA brain, a virtual brain lawnmower. Is this good? No.
JoeNo. You can keep that. Yeah. But that's not enough. So you would think that. Where did you find this picture? Um you would think that like Stephen King would have reconsidered his Dollar Baby um you know, philosophy or program or whatever after this movie came out. But there were actually three more movies made under the Dollar Baby program. Although I don't know when the rights were bought. They could have been bought before this this movie was made, but um yeah.
TomI know Frank Darabont, who eventually directed uh, you know, uh The Green Bio and Shawshank. And Shawshank, he came on King's Radar by being a Dollar Baby.
JoeYeah, he asked uh he wanted to adapt the woman in the room uh in in 1980. So there you go, everybody. The Lawnmower Man. You're welcome. Shall we wrap it up here?
JenYes, we can.
JoeI want to remind everyone to please continue to listen to our podcast. Uh if you watch the lawnmower man, I I don't apologize. It's a movie so everybody should watch at least once. Um, and if you haven't read the story, go go read the story. It's only 10 pages.
JenAt most once. It's also bad shit.
JoeIt's yeah, it's also bad shit in a different way. Uh, remind everyone to follow us on social media, come over in our Discord server and continue the conversation there. We also post our episodes on YouTube, so be sure to go to our YouTube page to like and subscribe, rate and review us wherever you listen to podcasts and check out our Patreon page to support us that way. Links to all the aforementioned information are included in the show notes to this episode. Tom, final thoughts on the lawnmower man.
TomUm, not enough lawnmowers.
JoeTom, what do you like to mow the lawn where when you mow your lawn?
TomI pay someone to mow my lawn.
JoeOh, oh. Sorry. Sorry. Jen, you want to take us out?
JenI'm going to project myself into the mainframe computer. I'll become pure energy. Once I've entered in the neural net. My birth cry will be the sound of every phone on this planet. Ringing news.
JoeThis is the first time you couldn't get through that.
JenBecause you're gonna do it again. I'm gonna do it again.
JoeBecause you can't believe you actually were saying those words out loud.
JenDoing it again.
JoeWas that a little bit of a little bit more? Here we go.
JenHere we go. Don't laugh. I'm going to project myself into the mainframe computer. Forget it, I did it once. It's fine. Do it, do it, do it, do it, do it. I'm going to project myself into the mainframe computer. I'll become pure energy. Once once I've entered in the neural net, my birth cry will be the sound of every phone on this planet. Ringing in unison. That's as good as we're gonna get. Oh my god.