Jen 0:10

Thank you.

Tom 0:14

This is very funny.

Jen 0:20

Stephen King wrote a short story about a naked goat man cultist who eats lawn clippings in a yard while his supernatural mower shreds people to pieces. Naturally, Hollywood took one look at that and thought, what if instead James Bond fights a glowing CGI telepathic landscaper trapped in a floppy disk?

Joe 1:04

Sorry. I haven't seen this movie since I first saw it.

Jen 1:10

Why? Uh why I don't know.

Joe 1:15

I guess I grew out of it. But going back and watching this, oh wow. There's so much to talk about. I have so many notes. It's like this is the most notes I've had out of any movie we've done.

Tom 1:26

Oh my god. Dune, screw you. This is the most notes.

Joe 1:31

Yeah. Oh boy. This is interesting. I remember I'm like getting into the podcast.

Tom 1:36

Yeah, we're gonna do an opening into the show.

Jen 1:38

This picture makes me sad because of how the movie ends. They were so happy and joyful.

Joe 1:44

Yes. Well, the the ending to the I love I remember loving the ending to this movie.

Jen 1:49

I did it again.

Joe 1:49

We started So Shark Week's over.

Jen 1:59

There's no more week now.

Joe 2:01

Yeah, there's no more, there's no more sharks. Well, actually, there's there's a channel that has sharks all the time. I could watch that if I wanted to, but it's not the same. It doesn't feel as special.

Tom 2:12

Right. You've gotta you gotta have the absence of sharks to appreciate sharks.

Joe 2:16

Yes.

Jen 2:17

I don't know what you've got till it's gone.

Joe 2:19

Yeah. Absence makes the heart grow fonder.

Jen 2:21

Absence makes the sharks grow fonder.

Tom 2:25

It's not the sharks that are fonder, it's Joe.

Joe 2:28

It makes me fonder of the sharks.

Jen 2:30

Yeah.

Joe 2:31

Yeah. That's good stuff. Jen, I saw you posted uh your next uh adaptation you want to do.

Jen 2:37

No, that's well, it's not out of the movies until October, but I definitely want to do I I think we should all go see it.

Joe 2:42

I watched that trailer. I'm not quite sure what was going on there.

Jen 2:48

And then I was like, oh I please make this have been a story, and it is.

Joe 2:52

And it just seems like a uh a wicker man talking illegal.

Jen 2:59

But with good actors in it.

Joe 3:00

Yeah, that's what it looks like.

Jen 3:02

And it's like uh the story's a little bit more detailed than a typical porn.

Joe 3:05

And it's not humans having sex.

Jen 3:07

Yeah, it's like monster, what do they call that?

Joe 3:10

What?

Jen 3:11

Monster Effer porn.

Tom 3:14

Do they call I don't know. I don't know that it's a lot of things.

Jen 3:16

It's like a thing where you're Wicker Man erotica non-human person.

Tom 3:21

Yeah.

Jen 3:22

Yeah.

Joe 3:23

Well, this is Wicker, what is it called? Wicker husband? Wicker.

Jen 3:25

No, Wicker.

Joe 3:27

Is it? I thought it said Wicker. Or is the store the story name is the Wicker?

Jen 3:31

Uh the Wicker Husband.

Joe 3:32

The Wicker Husband, yeah.

Jen 3:34

I just want to I have to know more about like Peter Dinklage's Wells. At first I want to know Peter Dinklage's power level, and then I want to see if I don't know. I want to see where this goes.

Tom 3:47

You want to see Wicker's Wood?

Jen 3:49

Wicker's Wood. I'm sure you see it. I just have a feeling that you do, based on the trailer. It's like not why I want to do it. It's like a Wolf Cop situation. I don't know what that means.

Joe 4:00

You never saw Wolf Cop?

Jen 4:02

Wolf Cop? No. Should we add that to the list?

Joe 4:04

It's not an adaptation, I don't think. I mean, it could be. I mean, if it is, that'd be great.

Jen 4:08

Listen, if this was an adaptation, then we could make a case for anything.

Joe 4:12

Watch Wolf. Dan, I think I feel like Dan's seen Wolf Cop. Ask him. Yeah, we've got to be able to do that. We've heard that phrase before.

Tom 4:20

Yeah.

Joe 4:21

Yeah. Yeah. When when he transforms into a wolf, I think he's in the bathroom taking a leak, and they show, like, you know how they always got to show his arm growing hair and whatever, and his teeth growing, and it's always like close-ups in these movies. Well, there's a close-up of his dong turning into a wolf dong.

Jen 4:38

So it's like Robocop, but with a wolf?

Tom 4:41

The werewolf.

Joe 4:42

The werewolf. Well, he's a werewolf. He's a werewolf, so he's not always a wolf. Well, actually, in the movie. He's basically always a wolf in the movie.

Tom 4:48

It's like Teen Wolf. He's like, he can just be a werewolf whenever he wants, I think.

Joe 4:52

Yeah. Shelf to screen, the podcast where we discuss sci-fi and fantasy, literary adaptations to the big andor small screen. I'm Job Perry. Nice.

Jen 5:02

You were gonna take it. I'm also Job Isgro.

Tom 5:06

I'm virtual Tom Sanity.

Joe 5:10

Wait, that's not they're not in the movie. Um and today we're covering the 1992 several classic adaptation of Stephen King's short story, The Lawnmower Man?

Tom 5:27

No.

Joe 5:28

Question mark? Question mark, question mark, question mark, question mark.

Jen 5:34

There's so many parts of the movie where I picture like they showed a screening to Stephen King, and they're like, see? Look!

Joe 5:41

They just showed him that one scene.

Jen 5:43

Yeah, the one scene, but also there's like there's a lawnmower.

Joe 5:46

Yeah.

Jen 5:47

Huh?

Tom 5:48

Like he's a man.

Jen 5:49

See what we did here?

Joe 5:50

Yeah.

Jen 5:51

Steven?

Joe 5:52

Uh he was not happy twice. No, twice.

Jen 5:56

This is yeah, no.

Joe 5:58

And after reading the short story, I thought he didn't want his name on it because he didn't want people reading the short story. Because I was like, what is this?

Jen 6:06

No, this was clearly a movie that already existed.

Joe 6:09

It was, yeah. It was.

Jen 6:10

And then they just like changed a little bit of it. So what was your Oh my god, I forgot I forgot to I forgot to read the background on it. I completely forgot. So now I'm gonna get all new information.

Joe 6:21

Oh, you didn't you didn't read the research?

Jen 6:23

I didn't study today. I forgot. I just finished the movie a little while ago, so I didn't I completely forgot. Now I'm gonna get all new information.

Joe 6:30

Jen, what was your first introduction to the lawnmower man? Tell us about that experience.

Jen 6:34

Um my first introduction to the lawnmower man was reading the short story about a week ago. Um, it was interesting, um, as Stephen King normally is. It always takes like a turn that you're not expecting that's incredibly strange. Um, but I was like, okay. And then I watched the movie that literally contained a lawnmower and a man and and no other one other one scene. Kind of is the same. And the rest of it is clearly like, as you guys have said, I'm right about, was another movie that was adjusted to take over this title.

Tom 7:13

Oh, yeah.

Jen 7:14

And I I I'm interested to learn how that's allowed.

Joe 7:18

Oh, well, you'll find out.

Jen 7:20

Okay, good.

Joe 7:22

Um Tom, how about you? Your first experience with the Lawnmower Man.

Tom 7:27

Alright, so I I think I'm sure I've mentioned this at some point or another, but Stephen King's my favorite author. Uh I've been reading his book since I was eleven. So I read Night Shift, I want to probably say when I was like 12 or 13. It wasn't one of the first things I was. Yeah, I did not. I I don't know if I read it before or after the film. Probably before. Because I remember when the movie coming out. I remember the movie coming out and originally being Stephen King's The Lawnmower Man and then just being the Lawnmower Man. Um so yeah, I I I I read it back then. I thought that the story I mean the the entire short short story like that that that it's in a collection of short stories called Night Shift. Um that I read it. I know it was originally published like in uh Cavalier or something like that. But um I read it in the in the short story collection Night Shift. It wasn't my favorite story in that that collection, but it was a cool one. I um I liked the the surprising Greek mythology tie-in.

Joe 8:32

Uh um that connects us with uh our last movie that we covered.

Jen 8:39

I'm grasping at straws trying to connect this one to the next one. I'll let you know if I come up with anything.

Tom 8:44

We'll get there. And then um Yeah, I thought I thought um I don't know. In in in rereading it for this, it just made me want to read a bunch of the short stories in the book that I like even more, but that's fine. I and then the the movie, I saw the movie for the first time yesterday.

Joe 8:59

Oh, okay. So you're you've both seen this movie for the first time. I've seen this movie before. Um, and that was my introduction. Jen, you had been teasing that there is a connection with with this to the uh Odyssey, and I was like, I have no idea what it is. I was like, I don't remember.

Jen 9:15

Yeah, he did it by accident.

Joe 9:16

I thought maybe there was like an actor, like a background actor who was in the movie, or somebody like a crew member who worked on the movie. And then I was reading this short story yesterday, and by Cersei, the Lone Mower Man says.

Jen 9:30

I was like, what? How the Odyssey somehow connects to the Lone Mower Man.

Tom 9:36

That part I I knew, I was like, I I thought that you that you at least, Joe, knew that part about the book.

Joe 9:42

I didn't know anything about the I did not know this was a stor. This was based, again, loosely based off of a Stephen King story. Fakely inspired.

Jen 9:51

If you knew, you might not have picked it because it's not real. It's almost like two completely different stories.

Joe 9:59

Well, Tom, well, Tom's the one who said it was a Stephen King story, and I said, Really? You you were very clear that it was not very close at all to the movie, which is why I wanted to do it. Plus, I remember seeing this movie when I was like, I didn't see this in the theater because I was 12 when it came out. Um, but I feel like I saw it maybe when I was 13 or probably around 13, maybe when it came out on DVD. And I I believe I or actually I shouldn't say DVD, it was VHS at that point.

Tom 10:23

VHS, yeah.

Joe 10:24

And like renting it with friends at like the local video store and watching it because I remember this like seeing the commercials for this movie, and it looked so fucking cool. It did look cool. It was like right up my alley as like a 12, 13-year-old boy. This VR like video game type stuff was so cool, and he looks like he's gonna like take over the world in VR. And I was like, Yeah, man, fuck yeah, let's see this. Um, and there was, of course, implied nudity in the trailer, which didn't disappoint. So that was my first experience watching this move, uh, you know, with the Lawmore man. Again, I didn't know it was a Stephen King store. I mean, maybe at the time it was brought up, but totally didn't remember any of that uh marketing or whatever.

Tom 11:10

Um, and I don't think I'd seen the movie since that's a surprise because I think once you've seen the film, just gotta keep watching it.

Jen 11:18

It's a yearly thing.

Joe 11:20

And then I found out that there is a director's cut version of this, which is I'd originally thought it was I originally thought it was an hour longer, but I think I was misled by my Roku app. And there's definitely a two-hour and 20-minute version, which is about a half hour longer than the original. Uh and I can't, Jenna, I was talking with Tom before you jumped on. I can't imagine what other footage they put in because it feels like they used everything they shot in this movie.

Jen 11:49

There's just scenes that like you I don't know, scenes you they didn't put in this at all.

Joe 11:55

Oh, I have a few of the scenes here. We'll talk about them later.

Tom 11:58

Right. There are scenes already in this film that seem like they're in the movie because someone said you have to make the movie at least an hour and 40 minutes.

Joe 12:08

There is a lot of like nothing happening stuff, like where it's just kind of like, what's going on here? Why why am I watching this? Why do I need to know this?

Tom 12:19

Yes, there's there's huge swaths of characters who are are are completely unimportant to the plot or anything else, but you know, but it's fine. But who? I I would say this. Like, there's people who are there, I guess, just to bully Job, like the gas station guy.

Joe 12:38

The priest.

Jen 12:39

Or the priest, the priest I think is the priest I think is important.

Tom 12:43

Right? Because you've got like the whole Job, you know, Messiah complex thing. But like, frankly, the neighbor, the abusive neighbor who gets who gets long.

Joe 12:53

The only characters from the original story, the parquets.

Tom 12:56

Right. Yeah. And and uh he's not very very very similar to the parquet in the book, I think, but like uh yeah, they're not really a situation. Although I will say, I think I think there's a secret other Stephen King short story that is also adapted into this movie, and I will talk about that as we get closer to that.

Joe 13:17

Oh, I want to hear that later. I I want to say this before because we'll obviously talk about the story first, but I did I did want to say that I have a note here that I just have to read it right now because uh five minutes into the movie, there are already monkeys killing people, someone smoking in bed, and a kid getting smacked around by his father all within the first five minutes of the movie.

Tom 13:38

Load it up.

Joe 13:39

I feel like the movie might have peaked around that point.

Tom 13:42

Uh yeah, when the monkey when the monkey vr analyzed the the guard's gun, I was like, this is stop the movie right now. This is the best thing that's gonna happen.

Joe 13:53

Well, whatever I know there was Lawnmower Man video game that was made. I'm pretty sure there was, but if it wasn't the monkey, like a first-person shooter from the monkey's perspective, then they failed.

Jen 14:03

Yeah. Why would it be that?

Joe 14:05

Because that's what the beginning of the movie is.

Tom 14:07

Yeah, it's the monkey in a video game killing people.

Jen 14:10

It's not anything to do with the movie, though. It's it's like everything to do with the movie.

Tom 14:14

Everything to do with the movie. You you play the game enough, and then you become a monkey with a gun. You have the mental powers of a gun monkey.

Joe 14:21

A gun monkey, is that what they're called?

Tom 14:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe 14:24

Or a chimp. I don't know if they were chimps, if he was a chimp. Oh, he was a chimp. Okay, sorry. Apologies.

Tom 14:30

I'm pretty sure. I mean, I'm pretty sure that was a guy in a chimpanzee suit, but still. Yes.

Jen 14:34

Oh, I loved like when you saw the the head from behind, like walking.

Joe 14:38

Yeah, that's what we're talking about. Like the first person. It really was the first person.

Jen 14:41

I know, I know.

Joe 14:42

Right. It was like a video game. It was like Doom or something.

Jen 14:47

No, but like you saw what he saw, and then there were shots from like behind him.

Joe 14:50

Yeah, it was like he had a camera like strapped to his helmet or something, and it was it actually you saw the helmet in the shot, which I don't know if that was on purpose. I feel like it was, so I think people would realize, like, oh, this is like this is the monkey. The monkey's vision.

Jen 15:05

Yeah.

Joe 15:06

Um I don't know. I guess he didn't, I guess they didn't have a lot of faith in people understanding that or figuring that out on their own. Uh anyway, let's talk about this story first and the the journey into a movie because it's a pretty interesting story. And I had, again, I'm so glad I picked this because I feel like the story about this story becoming a movie is more interesting than the movie, maybe. The movie.

Jen 15:29

Okay.

Joe 15:30

They should make a movie out of this. All right. So Stephen King wrote the story, The Lawnmower Man, in 1970, uh, eventually publishing it in May of 1975 in an issue of Cavalier Magazine.

Tom 15:41

Yeah, nailed it.

Joe 15:42

I just love how so many of our adaptations that we cover were published in magazines first. Um, well, they're old. I guess that's how a lot of things were published back in the day. Uh, the story reflects King's affinity for classical supernatural horror, specifically drawing thematic inspiration from author Matin's 19 oh, sorry, 1894 novella, The Great God Pan.

Tom 16:06

Okay.

Joe 16:06

Anyone ever read that?

Tom 16:08

I have not, but I've heard King talk about it.

Joe 16:10

Okay, there you go. King adopted Matchin's central motif, or Mackin, I'm not sure how to pronounce it, the intrusion of ancient primal nature worship into structured civilized society and transplanted it into modern American suburbia. All right, so here I'm gonna I'm gonna break down what this story's about, everybody. So if you've never read it and only seen the movie, so the narrative centers around Harold Parquet, he's in the movie, said uh aforementioned abusive father, not the same in the book. Uh he's a suburban homeowner who neglects his yard following a tragic incident the previous year where a neighborhood boy mowed over a cat. Desperate to restore order to his overgrown lawn, Parquette hires pastoral greenery and outdoor services. They didn't even use the same name. Yeah.

Jen 16:58

Uh yeah, on the truck.

Joe 16:59

I don't know if Stephen King maybe said maybe made him take it out or something. I don't know. Maybe they couldn't afford to paint it on the truck. Anyway, the laborer who arrives is an obese, unkempt man operating an autonomous green lawn mower. In a sequence of escalating absurdism, the laborer strips naked, crawls behind the mower while eating grass clippings. I don't know where the fuck Stephen King comes up with this shit. He slaughters a mole in a sacrificial manner and reveals that his employer is the Greek uh the Greek nature god Pan. When Parquet panics and attempts to contact the police regarding indecent exposure, the lawnmower pursues him into the residence, resulting in Parquet's ritualistic dismemberment. King utilizes this visceral premise to satirize urban domesticity and the obsession with manicured lawns, contrasting superficial social conformity against untamed pagan violence. Of course. I don't know, man.

Jen 17:55

I mean, if you just didn't call the cops on the guy, everything would have been fine.

Tom 17:58

Yeah, if you would have just been cool with it, Seder.

Jen 18:00

Just he said he was cool with it, and he got Seder was like, okay, cool, like you're good. You're like a normal, you know, you're good with us. And then he had to go inside and call the freaking police on him. Right.

Tom 18:13

I'm just I'm just a guy, it was like a half, half goat, right? Goat deer.

Jen 18:20

Like, what are the police even gonna do?

Tom 18:22

Right. Are they gonna believe you? No. Come on.

Joe 18:24

Well, uh yeah, I mean, he's I can't get the imagery of an obese naked guy crawling around onto the lawn behind a lawnmower eating grass.

Tom 18:35

So not only can I get this is this was a change for me. Uh because in the interim from when I first read the story to now, uh, I had seen Disney's animated film Hercules, where there is a Seder played by Danny DeVito. So I'm not picturing Danny DeVito instead of crawling out of a couch and it's always sunny in Philadelphia. Yeah, I'm not picturing him as the the titular Lawnmower band.

Jen 19:01

Danny DeVito would slay that role.

Tom 19:03

He would, 100%.

Joe 19:05

I'd but I would pay to see it.

Jen 19:07

Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

Joe 19:10

So uh following the initial uh magazine appearance in Cavalier, King collected the Lawnmower ran in his 1978 short story anthology, Night Shift, which was published by Doubleday. Uh Night Shift consolidated King's reputation as a commercial power in horror fiction, showcasing his skill at imbuing mundane household items with lethal supernatural qualities. Yeah, I mean, this isn't now what was first, Christine or this, Tom?

Tom 19:36

This came out before Christine. This is um his third or fourth book. He did I guess it was like Carrie, the Dead Zone, uh, the original the stand. Um he was working his way up. He was working his way up to a lot in this, yeah.

Joe 19:53

Started off small with a lawnmower, then worked his way up to a full-size car.

Tom 19:57

Yeah. So also in this short stories collection is the Mangler. So I can think about like uh a haunted uh haunted like pressing machine in an industrial room, right? Um which uh is a place that he worked. And it does have ghost race car drivers uh in the short story collection. And the also adapted into a movie Sometimes They Come Back.

Joe 20:27

Oh, yeah, sometimes I think I've seen that movie. Yeah. Yeah, and it's also got Children of the Corn in here as well.

Tom 20:33

Children of the Corn's in here. Two uh two short stories that were adapted in Cat's Eye that are probably my two favorite stories in here. Uh The Ledge and Quitter's Inc.

Joe 20:44

Oh. Yeah. I don't know if I've seen those.

Tom 20:46

Oh wait.

Joe 20:46

Oh, those are yes, I know exactly what you're talking about. Oh, yes, the let the quitters is with the smoke error, right?

Tom 20:54

Yeah, like yeah. And the ledge is the guy's got a leg around.

Joe 20:57

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I've seen those. That's a good, yeah, that's cat's eye. Right, there's just it's those three stories.

Tom 21:02

It's yeah, it's it's I think it's those two from this book, and then the third story is written for just for the screen. It's the one with the cat. Yeah. When the cat's trying to kill the gremlin or whatever.

Joe 21:10

Yeah, the little girl.

Tom 21:12

Yeah.

Joe 21:12

There's that there's the, you know, that kind of iconic image. Uh who's the girl? Is that Whitzerface? Drew Barrymore. Drew Barrymore, right? It of the, you know, it's to her lying down and the little gremlin like holding her nose closed, right?

Tom 21:23

Yeah, trying to steal her breath. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Um so another, I mean whatever now we're gonna get down to the weeds. So another Drew Barrymore Stephen King book adaptation, right, was Firestarter. Oh yeah, right. And so Firestarter, the main villains in Firestarter are the shop, which is like a secret government spook organization, like an illicit, like a CIA against America kind of a vibe. Right? Um and so they're they're like a to Jen's point, like, hey Steve, eh, the shop, huh? The shop, huh? Right? Like just shoehorning that into this movie to try and keep his name in the title.

Joe 22:06

Oh, yeah, man. We're gonna talk about the shop, man. And and Dean Norris and his Dean Norris. Dean, what were you doing? Um anyway, getting back to the story. Getting back to the story, right? So Stephen King uh made this story available under his Dollar Baby Licensing Initiative, enabling students and indie filmmakers to option the adaptation rights for one dollar.

Tom 22:32

Yes.

Joe 22:32

Right? Um in December of 1981, Marvel Comics published a direct graph graphic adaptation of the Lawnmower Man in Bizarre Adventures number 29. Yeah. Featuring King's unabridged prose paired with artwork by Walt Simmons.

Tom 22:48

Simonson?

Joe 22:49

Simons, sorry. Simonson. Tom, any chance you have a copy of this?

Tom 22:53

I do not, and I didn't know this existed until earlier today. So I uh I want to get that. It sounds awesome. Walt Simonson's an unbelievable uh artist, uh, most famous for Thor, but has done a lot of work.

Joe 23:05

It might be hard to find. You never know.

Tom 23:07

Yeah, I'll get a reprint. I'm not I don't need like a first edition stuff. I'll find it.

Joe 23:10

Yeah, it says IDW publishing later reissued Simonson's original production pages in the 2014 portfolio edition. So if anything, you can get that. Uh then in 1985, film students James Gonis and future New Line Cinema Production Executive Michael DeLuca adapted the story into a 12-minute dollar baby short film titled The Lone Mower Man: A Suburban Nightmare. Shot on a budget that expanded from 800 to $5,000. The short screen uh across independent horror circuits, including a 1989 retrospective at the Stanley Hotel. Uh this is on YouTube. You can watch this 12-minute adaptation on YouTube. It looks like it's basically shot for shot the story. I clicked through it just really quickly, and it's very it's pretty exciting. I think we might have to do that for a bonus episode potentially. I mean it's only a 12 minutes, but uh it looked pretty cool and old.

Tom 24:13

Yeah.

Joe 24:13

Well, yeah, not only was it shot on a $5,000 budget, it was shot on a $5,000 budget in 1986 or something or 85.

Tom 24:23

So Michael DeLuca, I thought I Michael DeLuca, the uh the filmmaker behind this indie film, this is a student film, was the writer of In the Mouth of Madness by John Carpenter.

Joe 24:35

There you go. Yeah, well he was uh he was an executive, he became an executive for New Line, which made this movie.

Tom 24:41

Oh.

Joe 24:42

Yeah, and then they made Lord of the Rings.

Tom 24:44

Uh Friends of the Show, he was gonna say.

Joe 24:47

All right, so let's see where we go. So, how did this get into the hands of the people who made this into a movie? Uh so we mentioned that uh so in 1978, the rights were optioned to Great Fantastic Picture Corporation. Uh, a British company called Allied Vision acquired the film options from Great Fantastic Picture Company uh Corporation. And then in 1990, uh Allied Vision explores developing properties from Stephen King's Night Shift Library to capitalize on horror's demand. Filmmaker Brett Leonard and Gimmel Everett write an original cyberpunk screenplay titled Cyber Gods. Allied decides then let's merge this with King's option rights, and license and then license distribution to New Line Cinema. Principal Photography began in May of 1991 in Los Angeles on a $10 million budget. The movie opens in North America theaters on March 6th of the same year. I'm sorry, the following year. So director Brett Leonard, right, he's the director of this, and co-writer-producer Gimmel Everett had no intention of adapting Stephen King's literary catalog. Their spec screen Cyber God was a standalone, it was a standalone science fiction story examining virtual reality, human cognitive augmentation, and nootropic pharmaceuticals and digital transcendence. The executives at Allied Vision recognized that King's 10-page short story contained insufficient narrative material for a feature-length film and instructed Lennon and Everett to integrate minor elements of King's story into Cyber God. This allowed the studio to market the project using King's title. Leonard championed the inclusion of virtual reality themes, successfully persuading marketing departments to feature VR prominently in promotional campaigns despite studio anxiety over unfamiliar technical terminology. Stephen King was not happy about this. No, he actually sued because this was originally, I think, branded as Stephen King's The Lawnmower Man.

Tom 26:50

Yeah.

Joe 26:51

He sued, won, got paid like two million dollars. Oh my god. And they had to take the name off. But apparently they were still they took his name off of the title, but they still used his name in the marketing. So he sued them again, won again, and won like another million five or something like that.

Tom 27:12

Amazing. Which of course he needed.

Joe 27:15

Yeah, yeah. Uh at that time. So yeah, so this movie gets made. We've got uh uh who's who of cast.

Tom 27:24

Well, um well we've got a who's two, I guess.

Joe 27:28

Who's two? Who's three, maybe?

Jen 27:31

Wait, you know who else is in this movie? Roger Pedactor from Ace Ventura. Dan pointed that out. Roger Ventura. He's one of the cops.

Tom 27:38

The guy's Ace Ventura. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, yeah. He's he's also he's also a cop in Stephen King's The Stand.

Jen 27:47

Oh, okay. Yeah.

Tom 27:49

He's got a pretty he's got it's a small ish part, but he's in a few scenes.

Joe 27:52

Troy Evans, Lieutenant Goodwin, that's who you're talking about, right? One of the older cop, right?

Jen 27:58

Yeah, the one who's talking to them.

Tom 27:59

Yeah, he's like he looks like he's like Yeah, the one in charge.

Joe 28:03

I mean, we've got we've got James Bond himself, uh Piers Brosen, was cast as Dr. Lawrence Angelo.

Tom 28:12

Trust the man with two first names. Dr. Lawrence Angelo pretty reprehensible the entire time. No seeming redeeming qualities, yet the movie strangely portrays him as a hero.

Jen 28:25

Well, I think he changed.

Tom 28:28

I think his character arc was experiences remorse, I guess, for the moral decisions that he's made.

Jen 28:34

I don't think you've I don't think you noticed him not light the cigarette at the end.

Joe 28:40

Yeah.

Jen 28:41

Because now he has a family that he loves and he no longer.

Joe 28:44

Does he is he now like with that family? Is he just like the family?

Jen 28:48

100%.

Tom 28:50

Oh, since you bring it up now. So this is the other secret adaptation. Right? So Stephen King has another short story in a different collection called um Word Processor of the Gods, I believe is the name of the of the story. And it's about a guy who has a magic word processor. That and and for those of us who don't know what that is, before they were computers, but after typewriters, there was like an electronic machine that would just it was just a monitor and a keyboard and write. So it was Microsoft Word as a machine, basically. And um so it's a guy who you could type into the word processor, and then it really happened. And like he had a miserable home life. Uh, and his brother, who was uh was like a unbelievable asshole and jerk, had like a beautiful wife and a kid, and his kid was awful, and his wife was awful. And like at the end of the thing, before the machine breaks, he he just swaps families and like he has the nice wife, and like it's a happy ending. Odd story. But I'm like I think halfway through the movie, like I'm like, oh my god, that's what's gonna happen in this movie. He's just gonna get a different wife and kid. And he does.

Joe 30:01

Well, he didn't have a kid before that. No, I know, but still um, and I'm really I I I was you know, his wife, his wife leaves him. I was like, they don't seem like a husband and wife, like that seems more like his girlfriend or something. Yeah, but um there's also there's a in the director's cut, there's a different thing that happens with the wife in that. We'll talk about that a little bit later. But yeah, we've got Pierce Bros and I guess where where is Pierce Brosen in his career? This is pre-for Mrs.

Jen 30:29

Doubtfire, right?

Tom 30:30

Before this doubt fire, before Bond post-Remington Steel.

Joe 30:33

So this is this is right after Remington Steel.

Tom 30:36

Well, I don't know, right after, but it's after Remington Steel. I thought Remington Steel was like ended late 80s, but let's see.

Joe 30:43

Uh oh man, there's not a lot of stuff he's no Remington Steel ends in 87. Right.

Tom 30:48

That's what I said.

Joe 30:50

Oh yeah, he's in a bunch of other things. Uh I'm sorry.

Tom 30:53

I was just I was saying the big things that he had done.

Joe 30:56

Well, well, maybe this is the reason why he's in this movie, right? So after Remington Steele, he does The Fourth Protocol, Noble House, which is a TV miniser miniseries, Taffin, where he plays the titular character, The Deceivers, Around the World in 80 Days mini-series.

Tom 31:16

I remember that on TV.

Joe 31:18

He plays Phileas Fogg, that's the lead. The Heist, which I remember that movie.

Tom 31:24

Okay, Mr.

Joe 31:25

Johnson, Murder 101, Jesus, Victim of Love, which was a T well Murder 101 and Victim of Love are both TV movies. So now he's kind of going back to TV movies, TV stuff. And then his breakthrough role, The Lawnmower Man.

Tom 31:42

Yikes.

Jen 31:43

I didn't know of his existence until Mrs. Downfire. So I missed every single line.

Joe 31:48

My mother watched Remington Steel, so that's my introduction to him.

Tom 31:52

And like he was almost cast as Bond in the 80s when Timothy Dalton got it, and then he got it uh what like two years after uh Mrs. Doubtfire? Right? Yeah, Goldeneye comes out in '95. So he's on the I'm sorry. Um we talked about the real opening of this uh of the of the movie uh with the monkey, the the chimpanzee. But like he wakes up from a nightmare that's I guess the chimpanzee actually also has psychic powers and is like projecting his thoughts into uh his head.

Joe 32:28

Yeah, sure.

Tom 32:29

But um Pierce Rosnan, conservatively, one of the most handsome men to have ever lived, I would say. Not not I'm not gonna say top ten, I'm not saying top ten, but top if you're top one percent. If you say yeah, top one percent, he's ridiculously good looking. I knew that this was not going to be a good cinematic experience for me, where somehow in the first scene, they make Pierce Brosnan look like he has a double chin. Like, and I'm like, this is clearly a director and the cinematographer who do not know where to put the camera.

Joe 33:10

Well, we we we could talk about the lighting in this movie as well, because I have a lot of I have a bunch of notes. This is the first movie I have notes about the lighting.

Tom 33:21

So like yes, yes. Well, they make very clear, very strong lighting decisions for the institute.

Jen 33:29

Do you have a note when they're in the office that is just blaring sunlight coming through every window? But it's like blue sunlight.

Joe 33:36

It's like it's not it's not even like yellow sunlight.

Jen 33:39

No, it's like white when they're in the when they're like when he's giving his pitch to them. Yeah, yeah. It's like it's like I don't even know how you can see because the sun is so strong in the guys. But it doesn't look like sunlight. It looks like blue light. Yeah, I mean it's ridiculous.

Tom 33:53

I'm sure that that office was just another part of of the setup.

Joe 33:58

They just shown blasted lights through the window. Well, I have to say, right, there they go to Washington, D.C. There's not one single establishing shot that shows that that is Washington, D.C.

Jen 34:08

I didn't even know that they were in Washington, D.C.

Joe 34:11

Yeah. Well, they mentioned it like we're gonna go to Washington. We're going to Washington. I assume they meant D.C.

Jen 34:16

because So where do they live?

Joe 34:18

I don't know.

Jen 34:18

Um, but then she gets on a plane. Is she just leaving him, getting on a plane, not going to the city, or is she going to the city on a plane?

Joe 34:28

I don't know. I don't know. This is uh every man's land. Um could they not afford like b-roll footage of Washington, D.C. that they could put in there to establish that they went to Washington, D.C.

Jen 34:42

Unnecessary.

Joe 34:43

They had to get all that other good, good information in the movie. Um where where was I? Oh yeah. We've got Jeff Fahy who plays the titular character, the lawnmower man. Um, and then we're we're we're basically we're we're kind of dropping tears at this point. Um Dean Dean Norris. Dean Norris, who I don't think was really anybody at the time, who's uh by the way, bald still back then.

Tom 35:08

Yeah, yes. I I I legitimately said the line that Marty says in Back to the Future with I was like, Jesus, did this man ever have hair?

Joe 35:19

I so all right. So when he first when you first see the director, yeah, I'm like, who the fuck is this guy and what is he doing? And then because I didn't know it was Deanaris until you see him, like his full body, like his full head.

Jen 35:36

A screen with a face.

Joe 35:38

I'm like, is that is that Pank from from Breaking Bad from Breaking Bad? What what is he doing with his voice?

Tom 35:48

I think maybe that's just what he sounded like 30 years ago.

Joe 35:52

No, he does like this weird affectation and the speech pattern where he he'll be like, and then we're gonna go over there to that place, and then we're gonna find what's gonna happen over there. Like he does this weird, he has this weird like cadence of the way he speaks, where he'll he'll rush a few a few words, stop in the middle of his sentence, or like not stop, but pause in the middle of the sentence, and then start the sentence back up and like continuously do that. That's an acting choice. It was a choice, all right.

Tom 36:23

Yeah, there was a very obviously there's a very big brothery kind of vibe from from him as a as a director of the shop. But um I the first time I saw him, I'm like, oh, this guy looks like like Dean Doris, but like there's no way Dean Doris was making movies in 1992 or whatever. I'm like, oh, he was. Oh, he was. He was just really young and still looked kind of like he was 45.

Joe 36:48

Yeah, the only other recognizable face in this movie is Jeffrey Lewis, who's the the the gardener, Job's boss. Yeah. What is his character's name, like McSumpling? Uh Terry McKean.

Jen 36:59

Like Terry. Yeah.

Joe 37:00

Terry McKean. That's his company.

Jen 37:03

What about Austin O'Brien?

Joe 37:05

Who was Austin O'Brien then? The kid. Yeah, but who but what was.

Jen 37:08

He was in Last Action Hero.

Joe 37:10

That's the kid from Last Action Hero?

Jen 37:12

Yes.

Joe 37:13

Oh my god, I didn't.

Jen 37:15

Oh, I did not recognize him. He also um he was in I think he was in my this says my girl, but I think he was in my girl too. I don't I don't know why he's listed for my girl. Um he's also in Lawnmower Man too.

Joe 37:30

Oh, yeah, you gotta bring somebody back.

Jen 37:32

Um and the Babysitters Club movie from 1995. He was in I remember him gracing the cover of Bop and Teen Beat magazines very often.

Joe 37:41

I didn't recognize him, Jen, but okay, so I do know him.

Tom 37:44

He was in prehysteria.

Joe 37:46

Prehysteria. Uh yeah. So uh that there you go. There's our stars of the movie. Uh you know, we have the neighbor, the Parquette family, right? Who's the at least the husband and wife were characters from the from the story. Although how Harold Parquette is well, I mean, he doesn't beat his kids in the story, so well, you don't see him long enough to make that. He does talk about his he does talk about his big-breasted daughter in the story.

Jen 38:20

Um wasn't that one of the reasons he couldn't h he didn't want to hire like young kids anymore because they were like looking at his daughter.

Joe 38:25

Yes, they're ogling his daughter because she wore crop tops or whatever. I don't know. Anyway. Shall we start from the beginning and work our way towards? We did. I did talk about the we did talk about the intro already. You know, the monkey, the monkey playing the video games. Uh I love Pierce Brosen's delivery of the line about virtual reality holding the key to the evolution of the human mind. It seems so out of place in this movie.

Tom 39:01

There is a dream of the, I guess, the writer and director of this film to like really broaden people's mind about VR man.

Joe 39:12

Um it it kind of was ahead of its time in some in certain aspects.

Jen 39:18

And you'll like nothing that he sees. There's parts of the movie where he's like struggling. He's like, I can't, oh I can't do it. And then you look at what he sees, and it's just like shapes and colors.

Joe 39:30

Like, what's happening? James Cameron congratulated the director of this movie, Brett Leonard, for beating him to virtual reality visual effects in cinema.

Jen 39:41

Okay.

Joe 39:42

All right. He said, he said, and I quote, you bastard, you beat me to VR.

Tom 39:47

It's not the VR, is not like I played games on the Oculus a few years ago. They don't look much different than some of the games that they play in this movie. And as cheesy and sh really, you know, whatever, shitty as this film is, the VR stuff at the end is fine. Like it's it's for 1992, it's gotta be mind-blowing.

Joe 40:08

Yes, and I think the problem that this movie faces is that this was like right after this movie came out, there was like kind of like a a real huge surge in the quality of like CGI.

Tom 40:21

Yes.

Joe 40:21

So this so this movie became like the graphics in this movie became dog shit pretty quickly.

Tom 40:26

Yeah. And movies went a different direction, right? Like, yeah, that the this is still this is still video game, like 1990s video game level graphics, whereas movie graphics became like the computer animation took them to another level. But um so this director did go on to make virtuosity as the next film. So well there's like down on the there's a bunch of movies that come out, right?

Joe 40:51

So so Virtuosity, Johnny Mnemonic, and Hackers all come out in 1995, which was just three years after this, and they've all got like similar type graphics and like you know, a a bit of a similar theme or you know, feel to them as this movie. So that's what I'm saying. It it was kind of I'm not gonna say it was groundbreaking, but this movie definitely had an impact on sci-fi type, you know, virtual reality computer type movies after for good or bad. It did, and we'll just have to accept that.

Tom 41:28

Deal with it.

Joe 41:29

I, you know, after watching the beginning of this movie, I I had a weird thought, and I w um do you think I I want to sleep with Job. No, I don't want to sleep without Job. As I was watching the beginning of this movie, and there's the whole like intro with him mowing the lawn and you you know the priest and everything. Not that the priest really matters, but I was wondering if there was any inspiration from this movie in the making of Slingblade.

Jen 41:53

Oh, good call.

Joe 41:55

I'm just saying.

Jen 41:56

I've never seen Sling Blade.

Tom 41:57

There is a very Slingblady-y vibe from Job, early Job in this film.

Joe 42:02

Yes, I mean he's good at fixing right. The priest says you're like a wizard with the machines or whatever, or was it the priest who said that? Or was it his boss? It was his boss, Terry.

Tom 42:11

The the priest does not say anything nice to Job ever.

Joe 42:14

No, he doesn't. Um Terry. Terry, yeah. His boss Terry's like he's a whiz with the machines. He he makes his own. It looks like a custom-made lawnmower.

Tom 42:25

Yeah.

Joe 42:26

Um, which it looks pretty cool. I have to say, I I feel like a lot of their budget maybe went into the making of this lawnmower.

Jen 42:33

I mean, you gotta pick one thing to sink the budget into it.

Tom 42:38

It is called, it's not called the VR band. No, it's called the VR.

Jen 42:41

It almost was. It almost was.

Tom 42:44

Cyber God.

Jen 42:45

So do you think like they just made his character a guy that mows lawns? Like, and he was just like had a different job before they changed the movie.

Joe 42:54

Oh, you mean like the original script Cyber God? Yeah.

Jen 42:57

Just like a guy with like another menial job, and then they made they change it to him being a landscaper, and then other people just calling him the lawnmower man.

Joe 43:05

Well, do they just the one is there only one time where somebody says the lawnmower man? The gas station guy. The girl calls him the lawnmower man, too. Oh, she does.

Jen 43:13

Marnie. Yeah, and the gas station guy does.

Joe 43:16

Jake, you're talking about Jake.

Jen 43:17

So Jake, yeah.

Joe 43:18

Jake is very reckless in the sense that he's constantly like lighting at things and throwing flaming things down on the ground at the gas station right by the pumps.

Tom 43:28

Job tells him right in the beginning, it's not safe.

Joe 43:31

Job's trying to be, you know, Job's trying to do the right thing, and Jake's just being a jerk. He's spitting cigarettes out at the gas station. He's lighting matches and throwing them on the floor. It's a wonder this guy's still alive.

Tom 43:42

Well, and and mercifully, he only he he gets to live. He just gets his brain lawn mode.

Joe 43:48

Yeah.

Jen 43:49

Although Is that merciful?

Joe 43:51

Jake has one of my I don't know. Jake has one of my favorite lines, if not the best line ever in this movie. Um, I think Terry asked him, like, how is all Old man is doing and like in the background, like it's as he's going off camera, you hear Jake go, worse than ever.

Tom 44:11

Brilliant, brilliant.

Joe 44:13

I want to know if that was in the script, or we just get that.

Tom 44:17

My favorite.

Joe 44:18

That's my favorite line in the movie. Uh, did you guys get Ready Player One vibes when you first see Dr. Angelo in his garage in the VRs? I did.

Tom 44:30

Hasn't changed that much.

Joe 44:31

Uh, I have a note here. The the uh comic book that Job gives to Peter, the boy next door. Is it kind of an important person in this movie? Uh Nuke Master 3D edition.

Tom 44:44

That's right. Okay. Job forgets the glasses.

Joe 44:46

Yeah. But it's good because he already has Peter already has his glasses.

Tom 44:50

Nuke Master.

Joe 44:52

Yeah. We get um we get him getting the kid getting smacked by his dad again, just to emphasize that he's gonna be on Job's shitlist.

Jen 45:01

Yeah. Gotta have a couple of evil people who deserve it.

Joe 45:04

Yeah, they're clearly setting up like a revenge sequence at the end. You've got the priest who's who raised Job, but Corporal punishes him.

Jen 45:14

Yeah.

Tom 45:15

Pretty much every night.

Joe 45:16

Yeah, I guess so. Every night, it's a pretty strange uh situation. Bad priest, we've got a uh a child and wife beater. Yeah. That guy's the worst. He's the worst. He is the worst. Yeah, well, we've just grow up who's you know reckless with fire.

Jen 45:31

Jake probably probably should have been first and then the priest. But if we were going in order of the worst.

Joe 45:37

Well, Jake's just kind of like a jerk. These like the the other two guys are bad people. Yeah, bad. Jake's just like a jerk.

Jen 45:46

Jake's a jerk, but he but he like punches him and pushes him on the ground, makes fun of him, and then says like he's like a regular bully.

Tom 45:54

So he doesn't get to punches.

Jen 45:56

And he just looks at him and I'm like, is he gonna is he gonna get up? And then the scene ends. But he gets him back.

Joe 46:02

Well, you know what's interesting? I thought about this scene um where Peter goes back, you know, to his house and his dad's yelling at him and his dad starts hitting him and and Dr. Angelo just watches. And I'm like, oh yeah, this was kind of a time where, you know, you would no one would say anything. Right.

Jen 46:19

Well, it's I thought it was funny when the wife is like, I keep asking you not to smoke in bed. And I'm like, are we supposed to be like on his side about like what a bitch she is about not wanting him to smoke in bed?

Joe 46:30

I know.

Jen 46:31

Well again, why would you yeah.

Joe 46:32

This is a time where I think it would be people smoked in bed.

Jen 46:35

Right. Like, why would you even have a problem with this? You're just being bitchy and you don't like me.

Joe 46:39

I'm sorry. Yeah, we we totally skipped over his wife leaving him, didn't we?

Jen 46:42

No, that's all right.

Tom 46:43

Yeah, she's portrayed as a bitch because like she wants a person who's not a complete mess in her life. Yeah.

Joe 46:50

Like I don't think she comes off as a bitch. She's it's very clear.

Tom 46:54

He's like, Yeah, it's clear he's a terrible partner to her.

Joe 46:58

Yeah. He's obsessed with his work. He basically he wouldn't he say like work wife something. He like lists his priorities out.

Tom 47:06

And then it's like uh, I thought we were gonna go to the city. Oh, I'm sorry. You should have reminded me.

Jen 47:11

Why didn't you remind me?

Tom 47:13

I did remind you.

Joe 47:14

Yeah. I've just been drinking bourbon since eight in the morning, it looks like it's like broad daylight out. It looks like it's yeah, fucking eight, nine o'clock in the morning and he's just drinking bourbon.

Jen 47:24

Doesn't she understand that his chimp died?

Tom 47:28

Things are really hard for me right now.

Jen 47:29

And all of his research is going down the tubes. The pro what was the name of the extra medicine that they're not supposed to give to humans? Project 5?

Joe 47:37

Yes, yes. Something. The new I never remember the words. I kept saying like neutronics, nootropic. Nootropics. Nootropic drugs. He kept he keeps mentioning nootropic drugs.

Tom 47:51

And I couldn't remember any u tropic, neural.

Joe 47:55

Oh, oh, okay.

Jen 47:57

I think that Pierce Brosnan is a good actor. He just has nothing to nothing good to do in this movie. But what well from what he's given, he's he's very good. Yeah, so this script is dog shit.

Joe 48:09

This script is clearly dog shit.

Tom 48:11

It's really, really bad. And he's got and everyone else in the movie is so like I I I would take it back. Uh when the cops come in before they get brainwiped by Job, I'm like, oh, this is like an actual person. Like the lieutenant who comes in, he's like a person, he's got a personality, he's cynical, but like whatever. Like, and like I'm like, oh, this is fine. Oh, he's gone immediately. That's fine. Like, yeah, he is he's got nothing to work with.

Joe 48:40

No, it's yeah, this is not a very well-written movie. The idea, the story is good in the sense of it's a very interesting thing to explore, and if somebody would have written a better script, it would have been better. Um, yeah, we don't have many great performances in this movie. I mean, Pierce Brosson's probably the best performance, I guess.

Tom 48:58

Um bad guys.

Joe 49:01

I mean, Dean Dean Norris is sorry, Dean, you're dog shit in this movie, too.

Tom 49:05

So bad. And the other guy is.

Joe 49:12

He's not doing it for me. He's just like a generic guy who works for a bad company and is kind of evil.

Tom 49:19

Yeah, he's atrocious. Uh I guess the the guy, like the abusive dad is is believable. Like, you don't like him. That's good.

Jen 49:29

I don't think Terry's bad. I like I like Terry. No, Terry was good, yeah.

Tom 49:33

I actually think the kid is good too. I think Austin O'Brien is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, he's good.

Joe 49:37

Well, yeah, and I mean I have a lot of comedy. I have a lot, yeah. Like, he's what I mean, his parents clearly don't care about him because they let him spend time with two grown-ups playing video games. His mom does. I don't know. And then they just let him go off with the slow lawnmower man who drives the truck.

Jen 49:57

I don't think he drives until he's a little bit smarter.

Joe 50:00

Yeah, I know, but but his nobody knows really he's smarter. Like the Parquette family doesn't have to be.

Jen 50:08

Your kid just goes out and comes home. Like that's just more like have to know where they are all the time.

Joe 50:14

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, it's a strange situation, but um clearly, you know, Peter's surrogate family of Dr. Angelo and Job is in a much better family than his family.

Tom 50:25

I I do feel bad for Jeff Fehey, too. I don't think that he's a good actor, like a particularly skilled actor. But this is a very hard thing to do.

Joe 50:35

He's very miscast in this. Yes. That's what it is. Like Jeff Fahy's good in like certain parts with certain types of characters. This is not one of them.

Tom 50:43

No. And it's just, yeah, I mean to to to play, he's gotta do he's gotta do like a flowers for algernon turn and then go beyond from just being, you know, low IQ to high IQ to psychic powers to godlike powers. And he's got an hour and forty minutes to make the transition. So basically, once once the first nootropic yeah, once the nootropic drugs get shot in, literally in every single scene after that, he's gotta be different and more intelligent. There's no there's no consistency of character after that.

Joe 51:21

I wonder if I wonder, you know, how this film was shot. If this film was shot, you know, and obviously not in chronological order, that's probably gotta be it's gotta be very careful to like not overdo it. Or overdo it. He's like, oh shit, I went pretty hard that time. I'm gonna have to go even harder for this scene.

Tom 51:40

I do like as he gets more intelligent for all of us nerds here, he becomes a better lover. Because that's true.

Jen 51:48

Well, I thought that was just because like he was doing it more. I the first time they do it, I'm like, this is making me extremely uncomfortable. This is really close to sexual assault. It's not it's not close to. It is. You mean that's it? She's not a whore, whores do it for money. She does it because she likes it. She likes it. I'm like, okay.

Tom 52:13

I guess that's my next 90s and stuff. Women have rights, you know.

Joe 52:17

That's my next favorite line, and I believe that's I believe Jake's in that scene as well.

Jen 52:21

So yes. Yeah. He's just laughing when he says that too. It's like she's not a whore. Whores do it for money.

Joe 52:29

Yeah. She likes it. Um, yeah.

Tom 52:33

I mean, I believe she's opened her legs for every young stud in town.

Joe 52:40

She's got oh yeah. Well, you forgot you. No, I'm sorry. She's not a whore. Whores do it for money. She's got money, she does it because she likes it. That's that's the line that we missed.

Tom 52:51

That's the line. Yeah, she's a widow. She's a widow.

Joe 52:54

Yeah, she's a widow. She's got money, she does it because she likes it.

Jen 52:57

That's is that like female empowerment? That is.

Tom 53:00

I think she's empowered so much she can rape a mentally impaired.

Joe 53:06

I I feel like when when the I don't know who's Jenny Wright, I believe is the actress who played Marnie. Marnie. When Jenny Wright went to the director and said, Okay, give me like what can you wrap give me Marnie in like a sentence? That was the sentence he gave her.

Jen 53:21

Oh man.

Tom 53:22

So I this is a slightly mean thing to say, but I want to say it. Uh, because I'm shallow. Um don't don't say it. No, I'm gonna say it. So, as an indicative of the quality of this film, I think is the quality of its hot woman.

Jen 53:39

Stop it, right now. I knew that's what it was.

Joe 53:43

What?

Tom 53:43

She wasn't like, for 1992? I think part of it is that exactly.

Jen 53:49

But the hair's bad.

Tom 53:52

Well, I mean, I guess you do, right? But like, yes, I think part of it is the n that period of time, I want to say like 1987 to 1993. Like what was considered like a sexy woman is so like it's so it's so bizarre to me.

Jen 54:08

So uh to me, I feel like that should be your uh the top for you because that was like your coming of age years.

Tom 54:15

But that's my point. It's it's a shitty. There were a lot of hot women in that time. They're not featured as hot women in these movies, right? Like the order of attractiveness of ladies in this film is Mrs. Parquette, his ex-wife, then the sexy lady.

Jen 54:32

Um I will say, I mean, I she's not she's ugly.

Tom 54:36

That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying she's miscast.

Joe 54:40

Okay.

Tom 54:40

Actually, I might even say that. I take that back because she's no one, other than Jake wanting to sleep with her, apparently, no one talks about how good looking she is. All they talk about is that she's easy.

Joe 54:50

No, well, they don't have time for that in this movie, Tom. They've got they've got layers and layers of plot and character development to get through.

Tom 54:58

That's true. That's true.

Joe 55:00

Uh which they don't. None of these characters, they're they're they're surface level. They're there's nothing to any of these characters. They're like all one-trick ponies. I mean, Dr. Angelo is Piers Braz's character is the only one who's kind of got layers in the sense of like, like you said, he's a bad guy, and then he becomes good. I don't think he's like he's the I don't want to say.

Tom 55:25

He's not a terrible guy. He believes in peace. He doesn't like war, he doesn't like violence.

Joe 55:29

Yeah, he's just a little lost in his work. He's a bad husband. Mentioned she his wife mentions he's depressed, so you know, we could be dealing with clinical depression here, and he's never gotten any help for it. Right.

Tom 55:39

I mean, he clearly he's daydrinking to deal with his depression, and she says it like this is something that he knows doesn't work for him. Yeah, yeah. So he's done it in the past.

Joe 55:49

Um but he's doing important work here, everybody. He's he's coming through with like game-changing revolutionary breakthroughs here. So give the guy a little bit of a break. Um, and also, right, he he's the one who decides like we can't use the aggression component to the to the formula. And he's like, I'm gonna be able to do it.

Tom 56:08

He doesn't want to do it. Yeah.

Joe 56:09

When he does it on a human, he's like, I'm gonna not do that because I think that that was part of the problem. And that seems to be like the shop's wishes. Like, no, we want we want to do that. Yeah, that's like the project five stuff that he starts putting in soldiers, not without telling him not superhumans, right? And and what is the goal of the shop? Are they trying to turn chimps into soldiers or humans?

Tom 56:31

It's all to get to humans, but don't take chimp soldiers. They want they want killing machines.

Jen 56:36

Oh, I thought the chimps was just like because they couldn't start with humans.

Tom 56:40

I think it I think that's true. I thought so too, but because of him.

Jen 56:43

I think I think if he wasn't involved, they would have just went straight to the show.

Joe 56:47

There's no clear uh explanation of what the shop wants to do with this.

Tom 56:53

Joe, you understand. The government is evil. And there's evil government that's evil.

Jen 56:59

There's a war happening, and they need super needs. Is this the Desert Storm?

Joe 57:04

The Gulf War starts, right? When he wakes up, every channel is war, yeah. War happening and soldiers. This was yeah, right, because this was I don't know if this takes place in 92, though. I I don't I don't know if this takes place in 1992. I just assumed it did because it's 91.

Tom 57:23

Right. There's no there's no time, nor and we were asking before, and I double checked on this because I had I didn't.

Joe 57:30

The location of this movie?

Tom 57:31

They never say where the town is.

Jen 57:33

All you don't know USA.

Tom 57:35

They don't. They don't say where what state it's in.

Joe 57:38

They go to Washington, D.C. That's all you say.

Tom 57:40

It's in driving distance to Washington, D.C.

Jen 57:42

I don't think it's the same. Oh, they drive there?

Tom 57:44

I don't even know. He drives back. He drives back.

Jen 57:46

No, no, they do say a time because he says by the year 2000.

Tom 57:52

No, yeah, it's it's around now.

Jen 57:54

Like I it it's around like the when it was filmed. It's around the 90s film. Yeah, okay.

Tom 57:59

It's clearly that's a time. Yeah, yeah. Like that you can tell, like the technology, the clothes, everything else. It's it's the it's supposed to be 92 or around.

Joe 58:07

Well, well, I'll ask you this. There is there is one thing that can that can date this movie. Besides, obviously, there's Gulf War footage, right? But I mean, I don't I don't know if that was clearly Gulf War, but I just immediately went to that and assumed I agree. There is one other thing. When Harold Parquette turns on the TV, he watches wrestling. Well, there's Andre the Giants wrestling, right?

Tom 58:29

And and it's Vitz McMahon's doing the announcement, too. So it's yeah, it's pre-93. Okay.

Joe 58:35

Well, yeah, this movie came out in '92.

Tom 58:37

So before let's say it is 91. We'll say it's 91.

Joe 58:42

Yeah, I think it's supposed to be present day.

Tom 58:44

Yeah.

Joe 58:45

Yeah. Uh all right. Good. Glad we all agreed on that.

Jen 58:49

Nailed that down.

Joe 58:52

Uh, what do we got? We got um, we got okay, so Dr. Angelo then decides, right? He's in a funk because he's gotta stop his uh uh what's his face? Is uh Lex Luthor tells him he should take a break because of the monkey death, the chimp death. Says, go take a break. We'll we'll put this on pause and we'll come back to it. It's it's so funny because he's so quick to tell him to take a break. Meanwhile, once he finds out about Job and the testing on Job, he's like, Oh, we got we gotta show this to the shop. I can't keep this a secret any longer. He's like really rushing at that point. But anyway, uh Dr. Angelo goes into a funk, he becomes an alc a depressive alcoholic, his wife leaves him. This is all one scene.

Tom 59:32

Um It is I I I I realize it is um when he starts, there's like a there is a time jump of nine days.

Joe 59:42

That's a big time jump.

Tom 59:43

Where is from it's like March 1st and then March 10th, I think when he starts doing it, and like he's got the same like two days of stubble. So I was like, so I I I was watching this with my wife. I was like, do you think he shaves every other day? Or do you think he shaved like on March 7th and then we're just seeing him now on March 10th again?

Joe 1:00:04

I don't know.

Tom 1:00:05

You're saying there's a really good layer of the they want to show here's a man who's so obsessed by work he doesn't even bother shaving in the morning. Yet time will elapse and his beard will not grow. He's just constantly unshaven.

Joe 1:00:24

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's how depressed he is. It's the alcohol slows down the hair growth.

Tom 1:00:31

That's what that's what it is.

Joe 1:00:32

Um it's at this point or around this point where I think we get a uh Job mowing the lawn scene. It's when I first realized that this movie does not fit anything that's going on in this movie. Um it's they're playing like a very melancholy score, and it's Job mowing the lawn.

Jen 1:00:52

Well, he doesn't have a really good life, I guess. That's what we're supposed to do.

Joe 1:00:56

No, none of the music fits this movie. It's it's all very like uh after school special sounding.

Tom 1:01:05

Yes. Spot on.

Joe 1:01:07

And it does not fit any it I don't want to say it ruins the movie. It does not help the movie, let's put it that way. Like, I want to I want to get like thriller build-up music, kind of suspenseful music. This is not that, not at all.

Tom 1:01:22

And you would think like the one time Joe would be peaceful or would be happy is like, oh, he mows this is what he loves to do. He loves to mow lawns.

Joe 1:01:34

Yeah, he does. He loves to mow mow lawns. Um he also likes to play games.

Tom 1:01:40

I like games!

Joe 1:01:41

Yeah, well, Peter likes to play games, right? Because Joe he tells Job that Dr. Angelo has the best games. Um and it's after playing the the the flying game. By the way, the the VR rigs in this movie are really cool. If if nothing else, all the different VR rigs that that are used in this movie are very cool.

Tom 1:02:00

Yes.

Joe 1:02:01

This is like their lying down rig, and they're kind of like they're like the airplane or or whatever they're flying.

Tom 1:02:08

Uh that part is dope. Yeah.

Joe 1:02:10

Yeah. That might be the coolest VR. That's not the end is the coolest VR scenes in the movie.

Tom 1:02:15

But yeah, but the airplane stuff it goes on a little long, but it is cool. It's like a little freaky when like the teeth, the robo teeth come down, and you gotta find the holes in the teeth to fly through or whatever.

Joe 1:02:25

Yeah, that's pretty cool though.

Tom 1:02:27

It is cool.

Joe 1:02:28

The the company that that did this, uh, the the CGI for this, you know, they actually they were actually bought bought by Rockstar, Rockstar Games.

Tom 1:02:38

Oh, wow.

Joe 1:02:39

Yeah. And they uh a lot of the people there, they worked for Rockstar and made video games. Um it's at this point where Job has the bright idea. Not Job, sorry, Dr. Angela has the bright idea to like, oh, maybe I should test these drugs on Job. And he says to Job, he says, you know, Job, you ever wish you were smarter? If if if you were smarter, then people wouldn't be able to take advantage of you of you right as he's trying to take advantage of him. But or or I mean maybe he doesn't think he's taking advantage of him, but he uh there's gotta be a little voice in the back of his mind saying, like, is this uh right?

Jen 1:03:17

At this point, I don't think he cares. Yeah.

Joe 1:03:20

Well, he's really obsessed with his work. He just wants his work, his work to work. Uh when he makes this decision, it's a good thing that he just has these nootropic drugs in his refrigerator in his garage.

Tom 1:03:31

Yeah.

Joe 1:03:32

Right next to the coors light.

Jen 1:03:34

Don't mix those two up.

Joe 1:03:37

And by the way, uh's light is not the only beer in this movie. The uh Harold Parquet is drinking Budweiser, so it's very interesting that there's Coors and Budweiser in this movie. Something you would never think you would ever see.

Tom 1:03:49

Yeah, that's really weird, I honestly.

Joe 1:03:52

Yeah.

Tom 1:03:52

This movie before corporations like paid you money to not use anybody else's.

Jen 1:03:58

It's a Stephen King movie? Yeah, sign us up.

Tom 1:04:01

Right.

Joe 1:04:04

King loves beer, we love beer. The king of beers.

Jen 1:04:08

It's like uh when Mickey Mouse and Bugs Bunny have to be on the screen for the exact same amount of time.

Joe 1:04:15

Right? Yeah.

Jen 1:04:16

The same space on the screen.

Joe 1:04:17

What's that from? Roger Rabbit. Yeah.

Jen 1:04:20

Oh, oh they both have the same amount of lines, they're both on camera the exact same length of time. Like, that's how they agreed to it.

Tom 1:04:28

Yeah. You would think Okay, now you would think Dr. Angelo, scientist, brilliant scientist, whiskey drinker of the day, would have a more like college guy beer in his fridge than Coors Light.

Joe 1:04:46

You think you would think he'd have a more college guy beer like what, like Matty Ice or something?

Tom 1:04:50

Or no, I meant like a Heineken or something that like people who went away to college, yeah, a little more, you know.

Joe 1:04:57

I don't think it was I don't think Dr. Angelo had a choice as to what was going to be in his fridge.

Tom 1:05:02

That's possibly true. All the ex-wife bought.

Joe 1:05:07

Yeah, that that should have been the line in the movie. And you bought me the wrong damn beer again. I don't drink Corz Light. But yeah, you know, he just takes home these nootropic drugs that are, I guess, you know, it's okay. Let's just take some home and put them in my free. Why does he have them there?

Tom 1:05:23

He made mine. I, you know, whatever. That's his thought process at least.

Joe 1:05:28

Okay. I guess we should probably stop here before we start getting into the smart job stuff. Yeah. I want to remind everyone to follow us on social media. You can follow us on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. Join us over in Discord to continue the conversation there. We also post our episodes on YouTube, so be sure to go to our YouTube page to like and subscribe. Great and review us wherever you listen to podcasts, and check out our Patreon page to support us that way. Thanks for all the aforementioned information are included in the show notes for this episode. Thanks everyone for listening, and we'll hear us next time.