Tom 0:00

The book is a melancholic, fountain pen-stroked meditation on aging and mortality. While the movie is basically the Princess Bride on Red Bull, featuring a cross-dressing Robert De Niro and enough magical glitter to choke a unicorn, it's the classic story of a man who goes looking for a star and finds a blockbuster budget.

Joe 0:38

Am I remembering that correctly? And it was like, I don't know, what, like almost an hour? Was it an hour into the movie?

Tom 0:44

I didn't look, but it was pretty far into the movie before.

Joe 0:48

He shows up in it. Um and then just was magnificent.

Tom 0:54

It was I forgot. Like I I knew at one time the description of the character that he played, and I had just forgotten like that that that that had been dumped from my brain. And so I was like, what is going on? What is going on?

Joe 1:12

Yeah. Oh boy. It is Friday. It's been a week.

unknown 1:18

Yes.

Joe 1:18

And uh now the week's over. Jason. Wait, what's going on in chat here? Did you just say you read the book and watched the movie in preparation? Yet a minute ago you asked what the move what what the movie was we were talking about?

Tom 1:29

He said he's you mentioned that you were you were reading it, I think, or that you were.

Joe 1:33

Oh, oh. But he says, and so I read and watched the movie last week. Like he prepared. Oh, we just didn't know that we were watching. Oh yeah, Brandon. Brandon Sanderson's a Jordan Con, that's right. JordanCon's going on, everybody.

Tom 1:52

Yeah.

Joe 1:56

Yeah. Maybe next year. Definitely next year.

Jen 2:01

Yeah.

Joe 2:02

I'm gonna do it. I'm doing it right now. I'm gonna I'm gonna fly there after this and enjoy Saturday and Sunday.

Jen 2:09

Let's just go.

Joe 2:09

Let's do it right now. Let's record ourselves on it. Like just going, leaving.

Jen 2:13

As we're walking? Okay. Walking to Atlanta, that's what we're doing. No, I mean walking to the airport.

Joe 2:18

We're walking to the airport.

Jen 2:21

Whatever. You know what I mean. Maybe if we had walking out of our houses.

Joe 2:25

If we all had some Babylon candles, we could get there pretty pretty quickly. This is Shelf to Screen, the podcast where we discuss sci-fi fantasy literary adaptations to the big andor small screen, although you wouldn't know it from the last five minutes conversation. I'm Joe Perry.

Jen 2:42

I'm Jen Esgro.

Joe 2:43

And I'm Tom Cocoza. And today we are looking at Neil Guiman's Stardust and the uh movie that followed. This I I had never seen this movie before. Has anyone interacted with the Stardust uh material uh before doing it for this podcast?

Jen 3:04

I have.

Joe 3:05

I have not.

Jen 3:07

I have seen this movie a long time ago. Um must have been on cable or something, and I just watched it. I didn't remember too much of it, um, but I remember thinking it was enjoyable. And then after reading the book, I'm not sure I hold the same opinion about it.

Joe 3:25

I this movie was well is well liked. Like if you if you go on like different sites like IMDB, even Rotten Tomatoes, it's got good ratings. Not like you know, blow you out of the water, but they're good ratings. And I'm I feel I I I don't know why, and I feel like the book it ruined the movie for me. I feel like this is probably a good movie for the most part, but the book just ruined it. I I don't know. Tom, you didn't read the book, did you?

Tom 3:50

I did not read the book. Oh, yeah.

Jen 3:52

Um, okay, then you probably might have blanked it a little bit.

Tom 3:55

I literally spent the entirety of the film going, who exactly did they make this movie for? Because it's not made for grown-ups, it's very childish, and no performance is like sincere or like well aiming for realism, but it's way too violent for children. Like my son, a half an hour into it, said, I'm not watching this movie anymore. Too many good guys have just been brutally murdered. Yeah, and so like I don't know who the audience for this film is, and I I spent a lot of the time absolutely like instead of thinking about the movie in and of itself, thinking about why so many famous people are in it in such relatively small parts. Rupert Everett is fourth build in this film. Yeah, Rupert Everett has like four lines and is immediately killed as soon as you see him.

Jen 4:46

He's in like a couple of scenes.

Tom 4:47

He's in a couple of scenes, but he doesn't speak because his face is smushed. I yeah, I didn't even recognize it.

Jen 4:52

He was very famous at this time too.

Tom 4:54

Like why is he why did he agree to do this movie? Listen, listen. Why is Robert De Niro in this movie?

Joe 5:00

Michelle Pfeiffer came out of a basically like a five-year retirement to do this movie. To do this film. And it's funny if if you see if you ever see the posters, right?

unknown 5:12

Yeah.

Joe 5:12

In the big big and up close is De Niro and Pfeiffer, and then in the background you'll see Claire Danes and Charlie Cox.

Tom 5:18

Well, I mean, Pfeiffer's the villain of the of the movie.

Joe 5:21

No, no, I know, I know, but I'm just saying, like yeah, it's like a Superman thing.

Tom 5:25

Gene Hackman and Christopher Reaper.

Joe 5:28

Yeah.

Tom 5:28

Right? Who is unknown. Like this is this is like Charlie Cox had like this was his first starring role.

Joe 5:34

Yes, yes. Uh so this so maybe the book didn't ruin the movie for me. I feel like next thing we do that I haven't read the book or seen the movie, um, I'm gonna watch the movie first. Yeah, and then read the book. Because usually that's I've always found found in my experience, have having read lots of books that were movies and movies or books that then turned into movies. Um I always find watching the movie first and then reading the book is a much better experience. And I don't I don't have any like vitriol for the movie ruining it. I enjoy the movie for what it was, unless it was a terrible movie, like some movies are just bad. Congo. No, I like that movie. That's one of those things where I saw the movie, I liked it, and then I read the book, and I'm like, oh, this is very different, very different, but I still like the movie.

Tom 6:26

Um, no, um, and I know this we're kind of like off from our normal routine with this, but I was reading a uh super seven interview with Gumman, and um he had said like he did the audiobook for this, or he did a version of the audiobook for this, and he's like, and it was ten and a half hours, so like he was he understood from the get-go, like whatever adaptation they were gonna make was gonna have to severely cut and condense. And like this was made with his full like oh yeah, pretty full endorsement and like handpicked like who would be doing the adaptation. Yeah.

Jen 6:58

I don't feel like it was cut and condensed so much as just every scene was like a little it was like kind of the same, but everything was different, if that makes any sense. Like the guiding like the overall story was the same, but like every scene until the end. Yeah. But then like every uh choice or scene or like was different. I I honestly don't know how he liked it unless he was just like this book cannot be made into a movie, so we'll just find change almost everything.

Joe 7:35

Do you think after reading this book that it couldn't be make it made into a movie?

Jen 7:38

Well, I get the end is like super different. And I get how maybe the end of the book could be kind of boring.

Joe 7:47

It's not a big dramatic climax, that's for sure.

Jen 7:51

Yeah. Action set piece.

Joe 7:53

Yeah.

Jen 7:53

Um But I mean I uh did I like the book better than the movie? Yeah, a hundred percent. But I I don't know.

Tom 8:03

Um so like you you say that like I guess structurally it's similar, but tonally it's it's it's it's different.

Jen 8:10

Totally, but then also like be like, oh, this is the scene where this happens, and like something else happens or someone reacts differently, or yeah, there's a different yes. This character's way off from what they were in the book.

Joe 8:22

Yeah, they do the exact opposite thing in the book and the scene, you know, something like that. Like, yeah, the scene's there, but the characters make different choices.

Jen 8:30

Yeah.

Joe 8:30

Um, yeah, and I mean let's let's we'll get into the movie in a minute. Let's just go back to the book, right? So this was this wasn't even a novel originally, it was a four-issue limited series uh under DC. Yeah, it came out with DC with um with the artist, uh, what's his face, who did the illustrations with it. Um I can't, oh my god, I can't find it in my notes, and I know it's here.

Jen 8:57

Hold on.

Tom 8:58

It's in there, yeah.

Joe 8:59

Oh, Charles Vess. Sorry.

Jen 9:01

Okay.

Joe 9:01

So it was a collaboration between uh Neil Guyman and Charles Vess. Uh the story goes um that in 1991, uh Guyman was uh at the World Fantasy Convention in Tucson, Arizona, uh while attending a gathering. Yeah, while attending a gathering at the home of artist Terry Windling, uh Guyman observed a meteorite streak across the desert sky. This event prompted the central concept of the falling star that was not a celestial rock, but a living woman with a broken leg. And that's very specific with the broken leg part, which doesn't really play very much into the movie. They kind of yeah, it's like in the beginning and then it's gone. I guess maybe Claire Danes didn't feel like limping anymore, or they just thought it was too distracting. Um, so Guiman's objective was to craft a pre-Tolkien fantasy, intentionally pivoting away from the secondary world tropes popularized by Lord of the Rings. Uh, he wanted to revive the British tradition of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, drawing stylistic influence from Lord Dunzini, James Stevens, and Hope Mearleys to create a fairy story for adults. Tom, that's what that's that's what the book is going for.

Jen 10:23

Yeah.

Joe 10:23

Okay. Not so much and and somewhat with the movies. And I know Tom, you brought this up. I think it was you saying how who was this movie for? Like you couldn't find the audience. There was a there was a battle between Matthew Vaughn, who directed this movie, wrote, you know, co-wrote it, uh, and the studio. And I think that might be some of the effects of or the results of those of that, because I think Matthew Vaughn wanted to make it more for you know an adult fairy tale, and the studio were trying to, I guess, make it a little more broad, or wanted him to make it broader so a younger audience could be drawn in.

Tom 10:59

Interesting. All right, yeah.

Joe 11:00

I'm guessing that's where that's coming from. Um, so after it was released uh as a four-issue limited series, uh in Vertigo Com uh DC's Vertigo, uh it was very successful. So then he came out in 1999 with a text-only novel, allowing it to reach a broader audience, just like we were talking about. So supposedly Guiman wrote this entire first draft by hand using a fountain pen and a leather-bound notebook.

Jen 11:34

Brendan coded.

Joe 11:36

That is very Brendan coded.

Jen 11:37

I was gonna say this it sounds like it's how did Brendan get it from this.

Tom 11:41

I'm sure Brendan's does like do not please don't correlate me to Guyman.

Jen 11:45

No, I know, I know.

unknown 11:47

Yeah.

Joe 11:48

Uh he said that the the physical act of the pen, you know, filling it up and regulating his pacing because he couldn't write as fast, you know, uh matched the story's old-fashioned tone.

Tom 12:00

Ooh, very nice.

Joe 12:01

Yeah. Well, I guess when we get to that, well, we can talk about this now because it's not in the movie, but there's a tree in the story.

Jen 12:09

Yeah.

Joe 12:10

A uh it's a copper beach who was a nymph that turned into a tree to get away from unwanted advances from uh a prince, which they took out of the movie. But uh apparently uh Tori Amos, who's a friend of Neil Guiman's, I don't know whether she still is.

Tom 12:28

Um no, uh there's I mean, she not not just a friend, I'm pretty sure he's the godfather of her kids. Okay. And then like there's like a she as independent of this, she just was doing a concert the other day where like he's he's in a bunch of lyrics to her songs because they were they were so close, and she like took them out of the songs. Oh yeah.

Joe 12:50

So the tree's based off her. She asked him to put her uh to put her in the in the story and make her a tree.

unknown 12:56

Okay.

Joe 12:58

We don't get that at all. We don't get a tree, a talking tree nymph.

Tom 13:02

No talking tree. There's trees in the movie, but not. There are trees.

Joe 13:06

And one of them could could talk, maybe, we don't know, but we just don't see it.

Jen 13:09

It doesn't talk to our characters.

Joe 13:11

It does not talk, it does not talk to uh Trist Tristan.

Jen 13:16

Tristan, whose name in the book is Tristran. And that change I kind of get.

Joe 13:21

I agree with that. I I saw the name when I first started reading the book, and I was like, Tristan. I was like, that's really annoying to say.

Jen 13:31

Yeah.

Joe 13:32

And everything's Tristan. Tristan, like it's I don't know if maybe as a British person, it sounds different or is easier to say. But yeah, I was like, this name is the worst. And then when the movie, I was like, oh, I wonder if the movie's gonna change to Tristan, and they did. So bravo movie. You got that right. Okay. Um, so let's see, let's talk about this adaptation, right? Uh transition to film began around 1998 when Miramax optioned the rights. Uh, though the project stalled due to creative misalignment, uh, director Matthew Vaughn discovered the novel while filming Layer Cake and eventually secured the rights from Guiman for a nominal fee of one pound.

unknown 14:19

Very nice.

Joe 14:20

Promising a faithful spirit, if not literal, transcription.

Tom 14:24

Okay.

Joe 14:24

Yeah. Vaughn and co-writer Jane Goldman developed the script for Paramount Pictures with a $70 million budget. Which is pretty good. $70 million for this movie. I would have predicted it was more money. There's so many.

Tom 14:40

No, just on the actors.

Joe 14:42

Oh, yeah, yeah. And I was just gonna say there's a lot of sweeping shots and CGI um in this movie. So uh so let's see, casting. We got Charlie Cox as Tristan Thorn uh Thorne. Uh so Vaughn insisted an unknown actor to preserve the character's development arc. Uh resisting studio pressure for established stars. Uh let's see. Claire Claire Danes was cast after uh Buffy herself, Sarah Michelle Geller, declined the role. Holy shit, would this movie be different with Sarah Michelle Geller?

unknown 15:20

Sure.

Joe 15:21

Uh and Gaiman himself personally encouraged Danes to uh to accept the part. So I guess he approved of that. Uh Michelle Pfeiffer Pfeiffer, sorry. I was gonna say Pfeiffer. Michelle Pfeiffer.

Jen 15:34

Michelle Pfeiffer.

Joe 15:36

Uh so this, so this was I mentioned before, it was this was a five-year semi-retirement return. And this this comment, I don't know what to or how to feel about this comment, but uh she was chosen specifically for her willingness to undergo extensive prosthetics.

Tom 15:52

Fair enough.

Joe 15:53

That's almost making it like she was the only one willing to do it. That's what it makes it sound like. This is variety of people.

Jen 16:00

Well, yeah. They probably had it some other people in mind, and they wouldn't they didn't want to do that.

Joe 16:06

So Yeah. Um De Niro was cast to subvert his tough guy image, playing flamboyant, cross-dressing pirate.

Jen 16:15

Yeah. What Captain Shakespeare brought De Niro to this role. That's what I want to know. How did this come across De Niro's?

Joe 16:23

What I want to know is when De Niro came in that this role changed drastically. That's what I want to know.

Jen 16:29

Maybe because it's fully different from the book.

Joe 16:32

He's a lot more as I was like, wow, we're still with first of all, the character's different. Second of all, we're really with him for a long time.

Jen 16:39

Yeah. Yeah, we're going back to the ship after he leaves.

Tom 16:42

Yeah, it is when he he becomes just in the second half of the movie. He's just there. Um, you've really like again, I I I I found myself uh I watched this movie the first half an hour with my my kids and then the rest of it's my wife, and we were talking about maybe this is like one of those movies where it's like a tax write-off for the studio, like they just had to spend as much money as possible into a movie to just like even out the books. Why he agreed to do it had to be the money. That's the only thing I can think of. And like why uh my understanding is that Matthew Vaughn had a two-actor shortlist for this film for that part. It was De Niro or uh Jack Nicholson, and that's it.

Jen 17:24

Jack Nicholson.

Tom 17:25

Yes.

Jen 17:25

I really thought it was gonna be like his daughter really liked the book or something. Like I thought it was gonna be one of those things.

Tom 17:32

Maybe.

Jen 17:33

And I also he's not good in it.

Joe 17:36

No. I like him in this. I thought he was I thought he was fun.

Jen 17:42

I don't care, like the character's fine, I guess, but I I think he's awful. I don't believe like a word he's and I don't know why, because he's a great actor.

Tom 17:52

Yeah. I I I I I agree. It it it looks like he Yeah, I don't know.

Jen 17:58

He's just saying words.

Tom 17:59

It looks like, yeah, it's a complete phone-in.

Joe 18:02

Oh, I thought he was really enjoying this.

Tom 18:04

He but he may have had fun. Maybe that's it. Maybe it was just like he was having all that. This is what this is what he's like when he's relaxed.

Jen 18:10

Uh he's not relaxed that much when he's working. I don't know.

Joe 18:15

Yeah. Not sure.

Jen 18:17

Um I just I just don't know why. Like why did they make that decision to to make this character that crazy? Like, I don't know.

Joe 18:27

Well, no, I think he was drawn to the role because of the because of the character, so I do think it was written this way.

Jen 18:34

Yeah, I just don't know why it was changed so drastically. So, what is that character like in the book? Just like uh like He's not in very much they're on the cloud, they pick them up.

Joe 18:43

He has a lot, right? It's the it's the guy who's no, I don't think that's his wife.

Jen 18:46

Oh, it's well it's not a good thing. But they're everywhere, all the pirates are s like super nice.

Joe 18:51

Yeah.

Jen 18:51

He's just like a fun guy.

Joe 18:53

There's a woman pirate, which she gives she gives Evane some dresses of hers, and they just in the middle of the room. Oh, yeah, yeah. And then they drop them off.

Jen 19:02

The leg is still broken. And then we just drop them off.

Joe 19:04

That's it.

Jen 19:04

They were with them a while.

Joe 19:05

But not much happens though. He doesn't like training montage.

Jen 19:10

No. It's like, oh, we've been here for a while and then we just get dropped off, and that's it. But none of this.

Joe 19:16

No, yeah.

Jen 19:16

I don't know. Which I don't care about that. It's not, you know, I just I'm just curious as to why that decision was made.

Joe 19:22

Well, they chop through a lot, like the first I I would say the first half of the book, they they fly through it in this movie. And I'm wondering, like, whoa, they're going quick. I'm like, why are they going so quick? And then I realized when we got to the end, I think I was telling Tom before, um, when they get to the part where um Yvane and Tristan are riding on the wagon with Dichwarta Sal, she turns him into a mouse.

Jen 19:49

A mouse.

Joe 19:50

There's only like what, 10% of the book left at that point? Like that's really close, very close to the end.

Jen 19:56

Yeah.

Joe 19:57

And I was like, oh, this movie's almost over. And then I looked, and there was another 50 plus minutes in the movie, and I was like, what is gonna happen in this movie?

Jen 20:06

I I love I love that he's running full speed to get to her when he realizes like she can't go through the wall and still shows up like 15 minutes after. Like you think everyone's gonna converge at the same time, and he's like nowhere near anything.

Joe 20:25

No, he's quite late. Well, I mean, they were on horses and things like that too, so maybe that's why.

Tom 20:30

Prince is also late, you know.

Joe 20:32

So that's true. Yes, I was very surprised. I was like, what?

Jen 20:37

Yeah.

Joe 20:38

And then I learned why, because De Niro was in a lot, there was a lot of extra stuff in that part, and then the whole ending is so what talk to me about what the ending is of the book, right?

Tom 20:48

How does the book resolve itself?

Joe 20:50

It's it's very um there's no like big climax. So so there's the part where they travel on the cart where Ditchwater Sal turns him into a mouse, and then she turns him back when they get there. Um right, and then uh what's his name? Tristan goes to see Victoria, right? And he also sees his family and stuff too, I believe.

Jen 21:11

Yeah, he has like a mom. His father was married to somebody else who he thought was his mom, like his whole life, and a sister. So he's living this fa like he hasn't absolutely no idea that that he's from another place. He just like his father just it's basically like he his father sleeps with that the mom and then comes back and then marries another girl. And then, like, whatever, nine months later, a baby shows up, and I guess the mom just the other girl he married has to just like accept that this baby into their house.

Joe 21:41

Yeah.

Jen 21:41

So there's a whole family. He goes, yeah, he goes home and like visits all the time.

Joe 21:44

He has a sister that's six months older.

Jen 21:47

Or younger, I think. I forget.

Joe 21:48

They're six months apart. And then never thinks of like, oh, wait a sec, that's f that's physically impossible.

Jen 21:54

Yeah.

Joe 21:55

Um not the brightest guy, but.

Jen 21:57

Yeah. And then she Don't hit on it. She Victoria kind of hits on him for like a second in the movie, which is weird. But like when she's like, you know what I want. But like she's just like, no, I'm already marrying somebody else. Like a totally different guy that you didn't know about.

Joe 22:13

So you know who she so yeah. So when yes, it's very different when he comes back and she's like, she's very upset. She's apologizes to him for making him go. And then he he learns that she was engaged or gonna be engaged. Was it engaged or gonna be engaged already?

Jen 22:30

Engaged, but like since he left, I think. Actually, no, I'm not sure. It was right before that.

Joe 22:36

She's engaged to the store, the shop owner, who's his boss, the old guy. She's engaged to a much older man, yes. He's not that old, though. I think in the book, he's like four, he's in his 40s. He's not that guy looked like he was in his 50s or 60s, potentially.

Tom 22:50

But is Henry Cavill in the in the book? No. That character doesn't exist.

Jen 22:54

But I didn't realize it was Henry Cavill, it's in the last part. I was like, that's Henry Cavill.

Tom 22:58

I didn't realize it's Henry Cavill. No, I wasn't like the most handsome man.

Joe 23:01

Yeah, it does not look like him and that whatever that blonde wig they have on him. It's ridiculous.

Tom 23:07

He's much younger, you know.

Joe 23:08

Yeah.

Tom 23:08

Um okay.

Joe 23:09

So anyway, so so he comes back, she's like, Oh, I'm so sorry, you know, I was already gonna marry it. She apologizes to him, and he's like, uh, he's like, you know what, that's okay because I I love Evane. Um, he goes, she never tries to cross the wall, like yeah, she just waits for him. She thinks that yeah, she thinks that he's gonna go to Victoria and be with her and leave her. So she's kind of depressed a bit, right? And then he goes back to her. Oh no, he Victoria comes and meets her and says, like, oh, I'm to be married. And Yvane automatically thinks like to Tristan.

Jen 23:43

But it's like a two, it's like half a page long of confusion.

Joe 23:47

Yeah, because then I think Tristan comes and says. And they cut out the whole like two Mondays come together on the right? They cut the whole thing out.

Jen 23:55

Oh, that's when she can be free, right? Yes. When two Mondays are yeah, I don't know.

Joe 24:00

Come together like after something or whatever. Yeah, it's some weird.

Jen 24:04

Yeah, because the guy's the shop owner's last name is Monday. So when they get married, it's like two Mondays on a Friday or so. I don't know. Some weird. So that's when his mother can be free of the witch. It's but like he comes back to Evane and he's like, oh no, I'm like, I'm not marrying her. And she's like, Oh, good. Like that's kind of like it. There's not like a whole dec I don't feel like there's like a whole declaration of love.

Joe 24:28

Well, he learns that what's her name? His mother. Oh, we learned that she's Lady Una in this scene in that part, right? That's when we learned she's Lady Una, and that now Tristan's the heir to Stormhold. What's the name? Stormhold, right?

Jen 24:41

Yeah, Stormhold.

Joe 24:42

Um so Tristan and and uh Evane don't want to rush back though, they want to kind of walk the earth uh a bit. Yeah, so they do that, they come back, but then they don't go back, they decide to go walk some more, and then eventually come back. Yeah, he become he becomes the lord, and then he dies because she's like immortal, basically. Okay, and then she rules uh the rest of Stormhold for become a star. No, he doesn't become a star. No.

Jen 25:13

Yeah, uh I I don't know. And like like Michelle so the end of Michelle Pfeiffer's character is that she's she kills Septimus, like in a separate scene when he's like attacking her, but then she's so old that she like is just can't do anything anymore. And she just like goes up to Evane and they have like a conversation and Evane like kisses her. So like there's like nothing happens with her. Yeah, she just like gets so old that she can't do anything.

Joe 25:38

She like gives up basically. She's like, Um yeah, I'm too old for this shit, basically.

Jen 25:43

That tricked me because I thought she was giving really giving up in the movie.

Tom 25:46

Yeah, that was one of my favorite bits, was just like and then they took it away, but I liked that. I was like, oh, she's just done. You know, well, that's not what the book is. Yeah, yeah. Right. Because they even sewed the scene for it, like, you know, the Tristan has the conversation earlier about like I would want to live forever if I was alone. Yeah. Um very Highlander.

Joe 26:07

But no. I was hoping we'd get some queen in the background there.

Tom 26:12

One of the things I didn't like about this movie that I thought made this movie worse than it could have been was that the score was not good.

Joe 26:18

Uh oh, it was it was it was weird. I felt like there was music in places where it there shouldn't have been, or like the music didn't fit what was going on in there. And then there were times where there was awkwardly no music. Like they would be when they kept cutting to the brothers.

Jen 26:35

Like I hated that.

Joe 26:37

It sounded like one, it looked like they were on a different, they weren't even filming on the same day and they were on a different set than everybody, everybody else, and just told to do these reaction shots. But it would be like it was almost like every time they cut to them, the sound dropped out, and it was very weird. Like it wasn't edited, the sound wasn't edited in properly.

Jen 26:56

I I don't hate that the brothers are there because that is in the book. Yes. But the way that their facial features reflected the way that they died, I that that was like so cheesy.

Joe 27:05

I well, they were like that. They were basically uh a bootleg version of Waldorf and Statler, not nearly as entertaining at all.

Tom 27:12

Well, no. Although I will say, I think my favorite part of the entire movie is after uh Septius or whatever his name was Septimus. Septimus, after he dies and he's one of the ghosts, he's just really chill and like not evil anymore. Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah. And he was just like, he's like rooting for for Tristan to win, and he's upset that he's has to fight him. Yeah, you know. And I'm like, oh, that's kind of that that that was the most interesting thing to me was that like you think he's an out and out villain, and he he does a lot of bad things in the movie. Yeah, but at the end he's not, I guess. I don't know.

Joe 27:51

Like, yeah, they're not, yeah. The same, they're similar in the books. They're like, they're not you think they're kind of bad, but they're not really bad. They're just I don't know.

Jen 28:00

They just want to kill each other, basically. Right.

Tom 28:02

Like their father even tells him like he's disappointed in them because there's too many left. There's too many of them left. Like there should only be one.

Jen 28:10

Primus was a little cooler in the book. There was like more stuff with Primus. There's a whole scene where like he stays in a inn and he books something on a boat, so Septimus will go on the boat, but then he sneaks off and shaves his beer. It's like there's all this other stuff going on that can try to get away from Septimus.

Joe 28:30

Right?

Tom 28:30

Is it Tertius, yeah?

Joe 28:31

Tertius. That's how Tertius dies in the book. They're at the inn and he sends up a prostitute, right? Uh uh I don't remember. Yeah, he sends up, so they're at the inn, um, and Septimus sends up a prostitute to Tertius with the wine, and then they have sex, and she drinks, and then she gives him the wine, he drinks it and dies.

Jen 28:52

Yes, yes, yes. Okay.

Joe 28:54

And then and then Primus comes in and like questions the prostitute and then like threatens her. I think, does he kill her? I don't remember if he kills her in the book, yeah.

Jen 29:04

I don't know.

Joe 29:05

Yeah, they did a little different in this. They have just there's just like a bishop and they all drink wine together and yeah. So that was a little different. They they did cut down that part, like the beginning part with the the brothers.

Jen 29:19

Yeah.

Joe 29:20

And the whole kingdom is not Stormhold's a part, like, right.

Jen 29:24

And they probably just didn't want to call the kingdom is called like fairy F-A-E-R-I-E, but I guess they didn't want to call it that. So they just called the whole thing Stormhold, but Stormhold was just like their part of it.

Joe 29:36

Yeah.

Jen 29:37

So he wasn't like the king of the whole place. Yeah. Um this is in the book, but I don't like that she's Una and he's Primus.

Joe 29:45

Like they're like the same Oh yeah, she's the first girl. Yeah. So she's Una.

Jen 29:50

I know, but like they're both Oh, she's the first girl, but not she's not the firstborn.

Tom 29:54

Oh, I don't think it's only men count.

Jen 29:57

No, I know, but I mean I'm saying that her name their names are both like number one related.

Joe 30:01

Yeah, he's she's the first girl, so I guess that's why she's Una.

Jen 30:04

Okay. She's separate from the boys, I guess. Okay, I get it.

Joe 30:08

Well, unless he did Primus and Prima. Um Yeah, I don't know. But no, yeah, she's Una. Um, yeah, they c what's with what's with the intro with this, like, we're at like a scientist and astronomer. Like I don't know. What is the point of that? I don't understand why that scene was even in the movie. Alright. I assumed it was in the box.

Tom 30:30

I assume that was from the book.

Jen 30:31

No.

Joe 30:32

No.

Jen 30:33

And the beginning of the book, the part with Dunstan, his father, is like much longer.

Joe 30:37

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Jen 30:37

Too. There's a lot more of Dunstan.

Joe 30:39

There's a lot more in Wall.

Jen 30:41

Yeah.

Joe 30:42

You learn a lot more about the town, you're in there for a while. There's not just yeah. Who cares about that? I know, you're right.

Jen 30:49

It doesn't really matter too.

Joe 30:52

Some of it doesn't, but they set up like the whole the setup's different too, right? So the wall is there. Two men guard it all at all times. It's not the same guy guarding it all. They take turns, but every nine years they cut this whole part out, which is like a big part of the book. Every nine years, there's a market on the other side of the wall in Fairyland, right on the grass out there.

Jen 31:14

So that's I pictured it like right on the other side of the wall. Yes. Not like all the way through the tree. It's like it's like the wall, and then right in that field is like where the market is.

Joe 31:22

Yes, that's that's how it is in the in the book. And so every nine years there's a market where all the people from Fairy come and they set up shop right outside the other side of wall. And then the people from wall, that's the only time the people from wall are allowed to go cross through the wall.

Tom 31:38

Yeah. It's go to the market. It's when the market.

Joe 31:40

Once it's like every nine years for like two days or something, the market lasts.

Tom 31:44

It's like when the Amish get to leave.

Joe 31:46

Yeah.

Jen 31:46

No, what's the What's like the the fair like the Renaissance? It's almost like the Renaissance fair. Like everywhere, there's all these like you just go through. Yeah, but it's like, you know, it has all that stuff for them, which they don't all magic things and trinkets that they don't have on their side.

Joe 32:03

Yeah.

Tom 32:04

So So the father doesn't sneak over the wall.

Joe 32:07

No, he just goes He goes over he goes through the wall on when the market he meets the girl, just like they kind of similar. I mean it's a little bit longer, but they spend a little bit more time on the She doesn't just immediately go, hey, let's bang. No, she says she says meet me at tonight, meet me over by like in this field or whatever, or something like that. So he goes back and then she just fucks him.

Jen 32:28

But he's also kind of like under a spell.

Joe 32:31

Is he?

Jen 32:32

Yeah.

Joe 32:33

Oh, he is?

Jen 32:34

A little bit. He's like kind of like, hmm, you know, like I don't know. He's not a hundred percent himself.

Joe 32:41

I thought it was just because he hasn't never had sex with a woman before and he was like getting really and she was beautiful.

Jen 32:47

No, yeah, I mean he definitely like was attracted to her. I I thought there was more to it though, because I thought he was kind of like dazed a little bit. I don't know.

Joe 32:57

Interesting, yeah. Um that's like a bunch of stuff in the there's a few more things, but that's like a lot of the stuff in the beginning. I'm very surprised they took them. Yeah, they just kind of blasted right through anything in wall and just were like, all right, let's get them all let's get them into over the wall as quickly as possible. They spent more time with like Victoria.

Jen 33:16

Um, she's a little she's not nice in the book, but she's like a little bit nicer than she's she's like mean in a different way.

Joe 33:29

She's also she doesn't lead him on like in the movie. In the movie, I feel like Victoria's leading him on a bit, whereas in the book she's not really.

Jen 33:36

She's just kind of like laugh, she's like laughing at him a little. And then and then, but when he comes back, she's like honestly, I think feels bad because she thinks like she sent him away and he died.

Joe 33:46

She said she would still marry him because he did it. That's how guilty she feels about sending him off. That she says, I'll still she's like, I'm gonna I was engaged to marry this guy, but if you want, I'll break it off and marry you because I I promised you I would.

Jen 33:59

Yeah.

Joe 34:00

So yeah, that's a bit different.

Tom 34:02

That is, yeah. I think movie Victoria, I mean, she's shallow and she's yeah, like I think she likes him, but like it's inconceivable to her that she would marry somebody who does has less money than she does. Like that's just like that's a ridiculous notion to her.

Joe 34:17

Yeah, and so the funny thing is she doesn't, though, in the book, right? Because her her parents are good friends with Dunstan, with uh Tristan's parents. Tristan's parents. They were like good friends when they were kids and they grew up and they're still friends. But um, I think I think this movie made the characters much more tropish than the book charac versions of the characters. I feel like the the characters in the books are not really tropish at all. I I noticed that. I was like, wow, these characters aren't your like typical archetypes of characters in a fantasy or fairy tale. Um, for the most part. But I feel like the movie really just definitely made it that way. Let's let's just give him familiar um character types that you've seen before and you like already. We're not breaking new ground here.

Tom 35:05

Yeah.

Joe 35:05

Well, you don't have anything to compare to, Tom, sorry.

Tom 35:07

I don't. I would say this. Like, I I felt like um the character of Tristan in the movie is just um he's whatever type of character they need him to be for the scene that he is in. Yeah. Right? Like he's kind of a losery, nebish, and then like he's like a bohemian, I don't care, I'll do whatever I want, kind of a vibe. And then he's like, I'll get my ass kicked by a 98-year-old man, and then like he becomes a master swordsman in four days.

unknown 35:38

Yeah. Right?

Joe 35:39

I don't think he's a master swordsman though. He never fights Humphrey, he just pulls his sword out and Humphrey bats.

Tom 35:45

No, he fights Septimus. He fights Septimus.

Joe 35:47

Oh, that's right, yeah. But it's not and I kill Septimus.

Tom 35:50

I mean, it's that's it's dead Septimus being controlled, but he does kill him like four times again.

Joe 35:55

That's true. I forgot about it.

Tom 35:56

But he does like the whole thing with the chandelier. He like early on, before he learns how to fight or anything like that, he talks to uh uh Claire Dane's character. I can't remember.

Jen 36:06

Evane.

Tom 36:07

Evane, yeah. And he's like, Can you imagine me killing anybody? And like in another movie, it would be like, and now look at his he kills everybody, but like he doesn't kill anybody in the movie.

Joe 36:16

Now that guy's dead already.

Tom 36:18

Right. And he doesn't he doesn't kill any of the witches. Like that's not who he is.

Joe 36:24

I don't think he kills anybody in the book either.

Jen 36:26

No.

Joe 36:27

Yeah.

Tom 36:27

Well, there's no fight at the end.

Joe 36:28

He said, like uh he doesn't really fight anybody either.

Jen 36:33

No.

Joe 36:34

Mark Straight. I like Charlie Cox a lot. Oh, yeah. I he's no, no, we can go to Charlie Cox. I have a note that I thought it was a Robert Sean Leonard. Uh I just kept thinking of Robert Sean Leonard. Similar eyebrows, similar eyebrows. It looked very much alike. It was like a British version of him, I think, to me.

Jen 36:51

Yeah, I could see that.

Joe 36:53

Yeah, that's what that's what kept distracting me. But um, yeah, unknown, I guess. This was his I guess breakout role. I don't even to be honest, I don't even know what he did after this. His face looked very familiar, but then I think it was just because he looked like Robert Sean Leonard.

Tom 37:07

No, he was so uh before we watched this movie. I think before I knew that this was the movie that we're doing next, I was you know, he's Daredevil. He's played he plays Daredevil, the the MCU. And he um you know him from Bulwark Empire, was on Bulwark Empire for a few years, Joe, as uh Irish uh uh hitman assistant.

Joe 37:27

The guy with the funny voice who talked funny?

Tom 37:31

No, no, no, no, that's that's John uh John Jack Houston. No, he's like he's from Ireland in in in Ireland.

Joe 37:39

Oh yes, yes, yes, yes. Yeah, yeah, he's in for two seasons. Yeah, I do remember him, yes.

Tom 37:45

So like this move, this this part was like super cousin. Is he? I think he might be like a relative relative, but like uh he just comes in, he starts working for Nucky, and then Nucky finds out he was in the IRA and like starts making him his like his assassin, like uh you know, muscle guy. Then he ends up sleeping with uh Mary McDonald. Mary McDonald. First he sleeps with the maid, then he sleeps with Mary McDonald, and then eventually I think one of the the Italians kill him. Uh but this was like a super coveted part. And uh him, uh the guy who plays his father as a young man, uh, the guy from the T Mobile commercials. Yeah, Ben Barnes. Uh yeah, Pim Barnes, and like there's three other people.

Joe 38:30

Oh wow, I didn't realize that that was the T-Mobile guy.

Tom 38:32

Yeah, Andrew Garfield. There's like five, there were like five relatively young like guys who are all like famous British actors now. They all like lived together in a flat, like they all like were good for and everyone wanted this part because everyone was absolutely sure they were gonna become a superstar after this movie. And the movie like did it it actually was a financial success, but it just did nothing for anybody. And um and then like he didn't really get a good job for another like three years until he got Boarwork Empire. Um and that's what kicked him off uh for for his career now.

Joe 39:07

You know, Hiddleston auditioned for this role.

Tom 39:10

Yeah. And and the studio wanted Ben Barnes to play the play the role, and they're and and Vaughn wanted an unknown. Wanted an unknown.

Jen 39:18

He wasn't an unknown? Ben Barnes is a kid. Charlie Cox at that point. No, Ben Barnes.

Tom 39:23

I think he was slightly known.

Joe 39:25

I guess he was too known. Well, maybe it was a matter of they were both unknown about the same amount, but Charlie Cox, he just liked him better. Um, I mean he was but he was in some other stuff, but like nothing big got on the book.

Tom 39:37

No, he had been he had actually played uh Siena Miller's brother in Casanova.

Joe 39:42

Oh, there you go. Connection right there. Yeah. We got a narrator, which I I like when we get narrators for movies that were books sometimes because I feel like it helps to tell the story that's in the book a little bit better and connect it to the screen. So I'm Kellett. Yeah, yes, yeah, Ian McKellan.

Jen 40:02

I didn't know that.

Joe 40:03

You didn't recognize his voice right away? No. Oh my god, I recognized it right away. I didn't even have to look.

Jen 40:09

Peter O'Toole.

Joe 40:10

That was a surprise. That was a surprise.

Jen 40:13

I don't understand how that's my point.

Joe 40:15

Like rest in peace.

Jen 40:17

Why are these people in this movie?

Joe 40:19

Why, yes, there's a lot of people in this movie who are like a lot. Like, what's going on? Uh why are all these people?

Jen 40:26

Mr. Mr. Weasley played the goat. Yeah, yeah, and it's just before Harry Potter, but Yes. I was like, is that Mr. Weasley? I think so.

Joe 40:36

Maybe not the first Harry Potter come out. No, first well, the movie. No, I think the first Harry Potter movie. Oh, same year.

Jen 40:45

Uh Harry Potter. Let me see. No, wait. Stardust came out in 2007.

Joe 40:49

I think Potter came out before that.

Jen 40:51

No.

unknown 40:52

Yeah.

Tom 40:52

Harry Potter and the Goblin of Fire came out in 05. Thank you. That's the the four.

Jen 40:57

Wait, really? Oh my god. Yeah.

Tom 41:00

Yes.

Jen 41:00

Wait, that's President of Azkaban, 04. Yeah.

Tom 41:03

The fourth Harry Potter movie came out three years before this movie. Two years before.

Jen 41:07

Two years before this movie movie. What was I trying to write? Harry Potter and the what's the hell is the 01. And Stardust came out in 07?

Joe 41:16

Yeah. Yes.

unknown 41:17

Oh.

Jen 41:18

This movie is just so much older.

Joe 41:20

Yeah. So this movie is so weird in the sense of like, I was just looking at like top movies around 2006, 2007, and there's nothing, there's no fantasy, like everything is kind of depressing or very serious. We've got movies like Atonement and American Gangster, Eastern Promises, No Country for Old Men, There Will Be Blood. Those are all movies that came out in 2007. Uh, The Trans Transformers, um, Zodiac, and then you get 300 minute 2006. But but you got like knock, yeah. Then you're throwing like knocked up, Oceans 13, Smoking Aces, Juno. But yeah, this movie does not fit. I feel like it came out in a really weird time.

Jen 42:09

I'm looking at the poster right now. Is is Ricky Gervais on the poster?

Joe 42:14

Yes, there's a poster because the fifth or sixth build of the film?

Tom 42:19

Oh, now I and if you watch a trailer, like he's in a bunch of the trailer, and I was like, oh, okay, I guess he's gonna be like the comedic relief part of this, but oh, he's in two scenes.

Joe 42:29

He's I don't even remember if he's a character in the book, if that's character even exists in the book. I don't think so. I don't think so, but he was I loved it. Yeah, I loved him.

Tom 42:38

He was he was created with the express part of helping move things along, like a guy that helped people move to the next part of the plot.

Joe 42:45

Yeah, I mean him, yeah, him and De Niro bargaining. I love I'm sorry, I liked I was all for that scene. I thought that was a good scene.

Tom 42:54

Yeah, sales tax will say too much.

Joe 42:56

Yeah.

Jen 42:57

When he said something like Michelle Fiverr says something to him about a two-faced something, a two-faced dog. Yeah, he can look can look through the front door and the back door. I was like, is he making up his own dialogue?

Joe 43:07

I think he might be, I think he might have been improvised.

Jen 43:09

I think he made that lineup.

Joe 43:10

Yeah. It's weird. Like some of it is so much like the book, and then they just throw stuff in there, like to almost like to keep you on your toes.

Jen 43:20

I don't know.

Joe 43:21

Yeah. In this movie, they tell you right away that that woman's Lady Una, right?

Jen 43:25

No, we don't find out until the end. Oh, in the movies.

Joe 43:28

More exactly.

Tom 43:34

They say that the this the they say that that Una, their sister, has been missing for years. Yeah. Like, yeah. And then you know that this woman is Una. But they don't like explicitly say that she's a princess.

Jen 43:48

She says she's a princess to Dunstan, doesn't she?

Joe 43:50

She does, yes, she does.

Jen 43:51

Oh, yeah, maybe she does. I mean, she could be you don't really know if she's telling him the truth.

Joe 43:54

She doesn't say her name though, right?

Jen 43:56

Yeah, no.

Joe 43:57

I feel like we find out though in the we definitely find out in the movie. Much sooner than we do in the book. Yeah, it's it's pretty clear.

Tom 44:03

Like when you're watching the scene, if you're paying attention, you're like, oh yeah, oh, he's a prince.

Joe 44:10

You know, like yeah, in the book that's revealed at the very, very end. Yeah. So yeah, there's a bunch of things in this, yeah, where they kind of just throw some of the secrets out really early in this, which I again I thought was kind of an interesting uh choice. I would have thought you want to keep those mysteries. But Mark Strong, I was I didn't know he was gonna be in this. I liked him, but he just couldn't I just couldn't he look so weird with hair to me. It's very distracting.

Tom 44:39

Yes, yes. I don't think it's the only movie I've seen him with doesn't he have hair in Sherlock Holmes as well, or is he bald in that?

Joe 44:45

No, I think he's bald in that. That or his hair looks much better at least than this hair. This was a very bad wig.

Tom 44:54

Okay, so speaking of wigs, uh Michelle, my wife, and I were trying to figure out exactly um when Tristan g is on uh De Niro's ship, and De Niro's like, when I'm done with you, they won't recognize you. And so she's like, Okay, when is he gonna get like is he is like when is his hair gonna grow long? And he's like, No, it's long for like one scene, and then De Niro like kind of cuts it down to the length that he has for the back half of the film. And she's like, I think he's wearing a wig in that scene. I was like, I don't think so. I think like he it's just magic hair growth stuff, and then he gives him a new haircut because the character is clearly not wearing a wig in the back half, he just has different hair, but like there's a scene in the middle, like where it's like very long and he's like styling. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jen 45:39

So like cut his hair and then it like grew.

Tom 45:42

Yeah, I think I I thought like the it's just a magic world that grew his hair long, like that's and then they styled it to a different yes, yes.

Joe 45:49

That was a very weird choice. Um I guess they they didn't want to, I guess, have to uh show Tristan's hair growing as the movie goes on. Like that, I guess that would be too confusing for continuity, making sure that he has the like he he'd have to have like seven different wigs of varying lengths as the movie goes on, and they would probably have to keep track of all the continuity. It would probably just look stupid too, but yeah.

Tom 46:14

It's it's is it in and of itself, like they keep reminding you that he's got to be back at a certain time for the guy's birthday.

Joe 46:21

Well, he's a week, right? They say a week. It's a week. In the movie in the book, it's like months he's gone. It's like six months. Like six months, and his hair's gone long, like he has a haircut.

Jen 46:32

He doesn't just babble on candle directly to the star from his dad's house.

Joe 46:38

No, there's like travels.

Jen 46:39

There's a whole bunch of stuff that happens to him before he gets there.

Joe 46:42

They cut out that character, the furry man, the little furry guy. They cut out the trees.

Jen 46:47

Trees. They cut out the trees like ripping his they're getting caught in that thing where the trees are like ripping their clothes and stuff.

Joe 46:53

Oh, yes, yes, yes. Um The Lion and the Unicorn.

Jen 46:58

The lion and the unicorn. Yeah.

Joe 46:59

Yeah, they cut that. Well, I I was kind of I figured they would cut out the lion fighting the unicorn. I was like, I don't that's I don't know if they need that scene, and it probably would cost them a fortune to do it.

Jen 47:10

Yeah.

Joe 47:10

The octopus was very scary.

Jen 47:12

Octopus.

Joe 47:14

That's the line from the Goonies.

Jen 47:16

Oh, yeah.

Joe 47:17

That's what Dana says. The octopus is very scary. Yeah, is that that?

Jen 47:21

We gotta cut it out.

Joe 47:22

There is an octopus scene that they cut out of the movie. Yeah, right, right. But they left that line in, which is weird. Um, that guy's reaction, though. He's like, octopus, and that's the exact face that you're making when you're like, What octopus? I don't remember an octopus.

Jen 47:34

Anyway, did I forget that part?

Tom 47:36

Um yeah. Um, so you say the end is different. Yeah, I actually like basically because it reminded me of the princess and the frog, like that after like their kids and grandkids are grown and happy, like they, you know, Kristen gets to live in the space like Evangeline. Uh the lightning bug. But um, like I didn't mind that, but I did mind this is like in a movie that I didn't think was particularly good, like the most off note thing for me is so you have De Niro's character, right, who is secretly, except every I guess apparently his crew all know that he's gay. Um secretly a cross dresser, whatever. And then now at the end of the movie, he's out and proud. That's great. They're at the wedding, and Victoria's there with uh with Superman. He like winks at Superman and like Havill, like Eric Havill is secretly gay, and like that's a joke. And I'm like, that's that's a joke that's supposed to get a laugh from the audience, and I felt like that was a symbol of why this wasn't really written well.

Jen 48:42

Like Yeah, I don't even God.

Tom 48:45

Ha ha ha. Not only not only all this stuff happened, but she's secretly married to someone who actually wants to sleep with men.

Jen 48:53

Um, none of those people should have been at the coronation. Like, it's just I'm like, why are why are they there? And his dad was just like sitting with the mom like they got together, and I'm like, this is like what is this?

Tom 49:05

Like this is a fair wall traveled through the Yeah, I think that's like he's he's he's bridged the gap between uh walls.

Joe 49:14

Breaking down walls. There's like a scene of like like when the Berlin Wall comes down, it's just they just put that shot in there. Oh man, I want to see it edited. Where scenes of the Berlin Wall getting broken down are just edited into it.

Tom 49:29

Um and then a narrator says, A hundred years pass and everyone lives forever. Yeah.

Joe 49:39

Um this movie does give you things you never thought you needed and would ever see in your life. Like, for instance, uh Michelle Pfeiffer riding on a cart pulled by two goats.

Tom 49:50

Awesome.

Joe 49:51

Never thought I would see that. And I I was like, whoa, bringing new things to me, I was enjoying it, man. There's another scene I think too later on with Michelle Pfeiffer that I was like, wow, I never thought I would see. It might have been the scene where her boob dropped.

Tom 50:05

Uh oh yeah, yeah.

Joe 50:07

Or Winking had her her naked body.

Tom 50:09

Winking had her naked body, I felt like that. I felt like you, Joe, would appreciate that. I always thought you, you, you, you were a big Michelle Pfeiffer fan.

Joe 50:16

Oh my god, she's I love Michelle Pfeiffer. Even with all that horrible makeup on, she still looks so hot.

Tom 50:22

Yeah, she I when she restores her youth, she's she's she's you know gorgeous. Yes. Um the scene where the like the farmhand boy who gets turned into a goat, then gets turned into a woman. Yeah, yeah, and is like it's like just a bunch of like weird sexual stuff.

Joe 50:41

Again, who is this movie for? Right? This was not a Neil Guiman invention, this person.

Tom 50:49

Because like the guy's like feeling himself up and then like groping Evane, like get her undressed. It's like very weird.

Joe 50:58

Yeah, and I again, this isn't Neil Guiman. This was a change. This character doesn't get transsexed in the book, right?

Jen 51:06

Yes, he does.

Joe 51:07

Does he? Yeah. Did I miss that part?

Jen 51:09

Change change it to the daughter. But he doesn't like I don't think he stares at his own boobs or anything like that.

Joe 51:14

A boy gets I thought it changed a goat into the daughter.

Jen 51:17

Yeah, but the goat was the guy.

Joe 51:19

Was it? Did I I doubt I lose track of that goat?

Jen 51:22

That guy got changed into a goat. She had one regular goat. She had the goat he was gonna sell, and him also a goat. And then she changed the regular goat into the husband, and him from a goat into a the dog. Oh my god.

Joe 51:36

I missed that. Okay. I didn't realize that that was I didn't realize that was the same goat. Yeah, it was him as a goat. Here, Joe lose track of goats. I'm picturing of show notes now. Right in the show notes. Um okay, so I guess it was I take that back, you filthy man, you um Jesus. Uh let's see. Uh where are we? I lost it. Can we go back? Uh can we talk more about her?

Tom 52:06

I've been bouncing all over the place.

Joe 52:08

Yeah, can we talk a little bit more about Michelle Pfeiffer? She really tried in this movie, and I and I think some of it was good and some of it wasn't so good.

Jen 52:18

She was good when you compare, she's she's good, and De Niro is just like they're they're like way off in their performances.

Joe 52:27

Yeah, I don't think yes, they're very and I feel like this okay, this is one of those movies where I feel like not all the actors understood the assignment in the sense of like what the movie's about or like what what they were going for. I would say that's the director's fault, usually, if that something like that happens. Um, but yes, I felt like not everyone was on the same page. I mean, the chemistry, I have to say the chemistry between Charlie Cox and Claire Danes was believable and good, you know, for the most part.

Jen 52:57

Dan was like, when did we have any indication that they liked each other? Like, they do they do.

Joe 53:03

I don't know. It's much better told in the book, I think.

Jen 53:06

Yeah. But she hates him for way longer in the book too. Yes, and she's not as like she's not playful and at all. She's she's really sarcastic and like dry. Yes. I feel like in the book.

Joe 53:20

Like and genuine. Like I feel like Claire Days is way more playful and fun, but I'm sure that's what they wanted. Like, I don't think.

Jen 53:28

Yeah, no, I I think so too.

Tom 53:29

But the the uh Matthew Vaughan was was quoted as saying like he wanted this to be a cross between um It Happened One Night and like the Princess Pride. It happened one night's like a classic Hollywood right comedy about it's like two people who can't stand each other who have to go on a road trip and then they fall in love, right? Um and it's like very like it's Clark Gable and I don't remember the movie Gene Harlow, whatever, but it's a lot of like witty banter back and forth, like one-liners talking each other, and like again, like going back to my comment earlier about how Tristan is just whoever you need him to be for a scene, he's like a sincere neb-ish, he's whatever, all this, and then like all of a sudden he's like filled with cool witty one-liners when he's squabbling with this star in a pit, you know? Yeah, I'm like, and until you said in the book that she had a broken leg, I did not know that she's walking around for like a day. She's limping.

Joe 54:28

She's limping, but I thought she twisted. Yes, no, yeah, she has a broken leg.

Jen 54:33

Get her leg like splinter and she gets like really bad.

Joe 54:37

She's just like, ow, my leg. And it never gets fully healed, it's never fully healed. Uh, in the she has it till the day she burns out. I don't know. Um, like it gets it does get healed somewhat, and it she's better on it, but she still walks with a limp.

Tom 54:53

No.

Joe 54:54

Yes, they were, but like I said, I think that's just they're like, we're not gonna have Claire Days lipping around this entire movie. That's just not gonna happen. So I think that's that was just a movie decision where I understand that. Um maybe they could have made it a little bit more more of a part of the beginning.

Tom 55:12

Um, you know, especially how he, you know, puts it, makes a splint for her to start yeah, you know, some of those things that uh he literally does not care about her as a as a as a entity until I guess like he's poisoned and like the unicorn saves him from the poison. That's like the first time that he he shows any actual like oh she's in danger, I guess I should help her.

Joe 55:35

Yeah.

Jen 55:36

Yeah, I feel like in the Well he gets like the message from the other stars, yeah, which we isn't in the book either, I don't think.

Joe 55:43

In the book, that's when he used the tree leaf. He talked, yeah. He uses the tree leaf in the book, yeah. In this, they made the stars talk to talk to him and tell them that I guess they didn't well because they cut the tree out. I guess like we don't want to put a tree scene in, so talking tree, that's just ridiculous.

Tom 55:58

We already know stars are people, so yeah.

Joe 56:02

So this was originally offered to Guy Ritchie to direct by Matthew Vaughn. Matthew Vaughn's direct uh produced other guy Ritchie movies like Snatch and Lockstock and Two Smoking Barrels, and there's a bunch of actors in this who are in Guy Ritchie movies. Like the guy who plays Primus is in Lockstock and Two Smoking Barrels. The the I guess the first mate pirate, the one other pirate. He was soap in uh Lockstock and Two Smoking Barrels, and Mark Straw moves in Sherlock Holmes and Peter O'Toole played Brad Pitt and Snatch. Yeah, this would have been quite a different movie with Guy Ritchie directing it as well. So but I guess he was smart and turned this down. But like I said, it did pretty well, and people like this movie.

Tom 56:46

Yeah, I I I that's the biggest surprise to me is that people like this movie. I just didn't understand.

Joe 56:53

You talked about the the poison, the unicorn saving him from the poison. Did you like how the unicorn just lifts stood up and its hoof pointed at the po to like look at the look its poison?

Tom 57:05

Yeah. And then just dies. The unicorn's just no. This this character is way too smart for this.

Jen 57:12

In the book, um, Michelle Pfeiffer like cuts off the unicorn's head and zombifies the unicorn at one point and oh yeah, and then throws it out.

Joe 57:22

Yeah, yeah. She puts it in the carpet.

Jen 57:24

Yeah, she has to be like, it's a lot more gory in the book, a lot of the scenes. Also, like the unicorn kills the goat by like impaling its horn through the goat's head or something. Yes, and then go like head to head.

Joe 57:37

Yes, and then and then it impales the witch, Michelle Fiverr's character in the shoulder. Yeah, it is a little more violent in that sense.

Tom 57:46

They do kill a bunch of animals, like live animals in this game.

Jen 57:49

Yeah, they do.

Tom 57:49

Yeah.

Jen 57:50

And then that one of them gets ripped apart by wolves and ferrets or something.

Joe 57:54

That's what it gets first.

Tom 57:57

Yeah. So let me ask you a question, because it didn't make it's unexplained in the movie, and it doesn't make any sense to me. They meet um, what's her name? The the the Dishwater Sal? Dishwater Sal. They meet Dishwater Sal. Dishwater Sal can't see uh the star, but sees sees him, he's like, I need you to take me to Wall.

Joe 58:16

Yeah.

Tom 58:17

And she's like, I promise you'll be there fine, right? And then as soon as he gets the flower off, she goes, ha ha ha, and turns him into a mouse and puts him in a cage, but then just takes him to wall and makes him a human again. Why?

Jen 58:29

Because she doesn't want to like feed him and have to worry about him the whole time that they're trying to live. It's not like a day. It's like a like a week or something that they're together.

Tom 58:38

Well, the the book, it's a movie, it's a day. Yeah, right.

Jen 58:41

That's what I mean. So it's like stupid to turn somebody into a mouse for a day, but in they're traveling for a while, so it's almost like she's just like, I don't want to deal with this guy or have to worry about feeding him or whatever else. So I'll just make him a mouse and carry him along with me.

Tom 58:52

She can just not take him. Like I don't understand. No, she wants the drop she wants the snowdrop back.

Jen 58:59

Oh yeah, he won't give it does he is it that he won't give it back to her? Oh, she makes him she makes him promise. He makes her promise. No, he makes her promise, though, that she'll I guess whatever vow she makes, she has to abide by that. Yeah. It's like the code or something. Yeah. Okay. So it's like a good thing.

Tom 59:15

Maybe that's what it is. Like I'm just like, why did she change him back? I don't get it. She could just have a mouse. Yeah, no, she kept her word.

Joe 59:22

She kept her word. Um, you know, it's it's like an ice, right? Never hear the truth.

Jen 59:27

Yeah, right.

Joe 59:28

Um, you hear is not what you think it is, or something like that. But anyway, um yeah, it's we they added this to the movie because part they add to the movie, and it it makes sense because in the book you you would think, like, why doesn't why doesn't Evane just like set him free? But obviously Evane then can't turn him back to a human. Um, but like she tries to like stop Ditchwater Sal and like she can't because I guess the magic that the uh Michelle Pfeiffer put on Ditchwater Sal affects her. I don't know. I don't know. But um yeah, that's that is how they escape Michelle Pfeiffer's character in the book at the end. They're on the cart. Michelle Pfeiffer, right? The the witch queen stops them, talks to Ditchwater Sal, uses the truth stuff. Remember, like she Ditchwater Sal tried to use it on Michelle Pfeiffer early on when they first meet. She's like, How dare you use whatever on me? It's like a truth potion or whatever. So Michelle Pfeiffer uses it. Well, I'm not saying Michelle Pfeiffer, but that character uses it on Ditchwater Sal. And Ditchwater Sal hasn't seen the star because she can't see the star. So she honestly tells her, I haven't seen her, I don't know where she is, or whatever. And Michelle Pfeiffer character believes her because she's like, I put I gave her the truth potion. She's telling the truth, and that's how they escape and get to Wall. Um, and then at that point, is does she kill Septimus then?

Jen 1:00:52

No, she's in like a little hut or something, and Septimus tries to set it on fire. Oh, that's it. She does set it on fire, and then I I forget how she kills him though.

Joe 1:01:00

She wasn't really in the hut. There was no hut. I don't even know. It's like there's no hut or there was no hut.

Jen 1:01:05

Right?

Joe 1:01:05

Because doesn't somebody come by and then there's no hut? It's like just not a hut. I don't remember.

Jen 1:01:10

I don't remember how she kills him. Uh some kind of trick. I don't know.

Tom 1:01:12

Drop a voodoo doll and a fat one?

Jen 1:01:14

No, there's no voodoo doll. She he's watching the hut though for like a while.

Joe 1:01:19

Yeah, and then he tries to burn it down with her in it. Yeah. But she's not in it. And then there's no hut. Right? I feel like he looks around at one point and that there's no hut. There's no hut even there.

Jen 1:01:28

I don't know.

Joe 1:01:29

Yeah, it's weird. I don't know. Yeah, it's weird. And then that's it. And then she she eventually gets back to wall and she's given up already. And she says, uh, you know, that's it. That's how it ends.

Jen 1:01:38

I thought she was just like used so much magic that she was so old.

Joe 1:01:41

Yes.

Jen 1:01:42

That it was like, I can't do anything else now. I'm like too old.

Joe 1:01:46

Yeah. We don't get a big huge.

Jen 1:01:48

But that's like the first time Evane even is aware of her. Like she doesn't even know who she is.

Joe 1:01:53

Yes. Oh no Oh no, no, no. From the inn from the inn when she tried to.

Jen 1:01:57

Does she know that that's her from the inn? I can't remember. Because she looks different.

Joe 1:02:01

Oh, yeah, she's not.

Jen 1:02:03

I'm not sure. I don't know if she even remembers. I can't remember if she remembers.

Joe 1:02:06

She might I think she says she tells her who she is, but I don't know. Yeah, very different ending for sure. But they're really milk the De Niro's character and those scenes on the ship. They're there for a long time.

Jen 1:02:19

Oh my god.

Joe 1:02:19

On that ship. And I'm like, wow, they really I guess they really wanted to get their money's worth.

Tom 1:02:24

Yeah, I I guess so. As an Italian American, I'm very uncomfortable uh not liking a Robert De Niro performance in a film. But not only do I feel like he doesn't like this is not a real person, right? A rare thing for him. Robert De Niro teaching somebody how to sword fight or ballroom dance, neither of those things did Robert De Niro knew. No, like look like he knew how to do, you know?

Joe 1:02:51

Yeah.

Tom 1:02:51

It was just I was like the best.

Joe 1:02:55

Yeah, the whole yeah, going back to the witch's house and a whole big showdown there.

Jen 1:02:59

Yeah, no.

Joe 1:03:02

Um it was it was pr yeah, I was about to say it wasn't bad. It was just like like I said, I was not expecting it. And that's why I feel like I should have watched the movie before I read the book. I might have appreciated the movie a bit more.

Jen 1:03:14

Um Yeah, I think I did when I first watched it.

Tom 1:03:18

Yeah, I would say yeah, I would say this. The stuff that you seem to not like about the movie is not the stuff that I seem to not like about the movie. Yeah.

Joe 1:03:25

So yeah. It's not that I didn't like the ending, it was just I wasn't expecting it, and it was so it was so different. That's that's really what it was. I I I don't think the ending was bad. Well, maybe the very, very end. Like with the two of them you know sitting on the throne together, like you said, with all everybody they know is there. Like and then they go up and become stars. That part I didn't like. But you know what I definitely did not like? The the brothers' comic relief. I did not like that at all. I thought it was not done well at all.

Jen 1:03:57

I think it's really hard to do that and make it serious. It's serious in the it's not that one to say it's serious in the book, but it's not like silly.

Joe 1:04:10

Yeah, it's definitely not silly.

Jen 1:04:12

So I don't know. Uh it's probably really hard to do that and just have it be like a bunch of ghosts sitting around and they're not funny. I don't know.

unknown 1:04:20

Yeah.

Jen 1:04:21

But they're not scary. They're just there. Yeah.

Joe 1:04:24

Um there was one funny uh part with them that I liked. It was when Oh. Uh F when Primus is killed, right? He's naked. So his ghost is now perpetually naked. When you first see him standing next to all the brothers when Primus first appears there, Tertius looks down at Primus's naked body, like presumably down at his twig and berries. I thought that was funny because it was very subtle, like it wasn't the focus of the shot.

Jen 1:04:53

Yeah.

Joe 1:04:53

But you just see him look like this. I don't know. I thought it was funny. The rest of it was trash.

Tom 1:05:02

There's like interesting things that they do. Like after Primus gets killed, um, she was like, Why why is is he an alien? Why does he have blue blood? I was like, because he's upper class.

Jen 1:05:13

Yeah, I thought that's it. He's a blue blood.

Tom 1:05:15

Yeah. Oh wow. He's a prince.

Joe 1:05:18

So this movie wasn't it wasn't a success domestically. It only like we said about it was 70 million dollars to make. It grossed 38.6 domestically, but 98.4 internationally, so it was 138 million dollars, did make money.

Tom 1:05:33

Right.

Joe 1:05:34

And apparently it was uh it made a lot of money aftermarket on home. It's a home video, but I'm assuming DVDs and whatnot.

Tom 1:05:41

Yeah, yeah.

Joe 1:05:42

Like I said, 77% critic rating on Rotten Tomatoes, 66 on Metacritic. Not as great, but I'm surprised by that because I never hear anybody talk about this movie at all. Nobody talks about this movie. Nobody tells nobody's ever told me, Hey, have you seen Stardust? You gotta see Stardust. No. Not one person is ever gen.

Tom 1:06:03

Like I know what movie we need to do.

Jen 1:06:06

No, but I was just like, I remember this movie was like pretty good, and I watched it like a little bit. Oh, seven. I don't know. I caught it, and I was like, oh, this movie's pretty good. Let's and I like to read the book. And then the book was much better.

Joe 1:06:23

I asked my wife if she wanted to watch this. I was like, this might be a movie she'd want to watch. And then she's like, what do you do at Stardust? And she's like, oh no, I saw that. I'm not watching that again. She said to me. She's like, I don't have a desire to watch that again. And I was like, okay.

Jen 1:06:36

Yeah. I'm ready to for like a good movie.

Joe 1:06:42

You say Total Recall wasn't a good movie? I know.

Jen 1:06:44

That's what I'm saying. I don't want to say Total Recall is not a good movie.

Joe 1:06:46

You mean like more serious?

Jen 1:06:48

Like a good it's not a good movie. It's enjoyable and fun and and like good for what it is, but I I I need to watch a good movie. Like anything.

Joe 1:06:56

The Hobbits more movies weren't good enough.

Jen 1:06:58

The Hobbit, Starship Troopers, Total Recall, and this. I just need like a palette cleanser. Well okay. And I think I'm gonna get one. I'm pretty sure I've got it.

Tom 1:07:08

I think the movie that we're gonna do next, I don't think it's like a we have other movies in the docket that I think are like legitimately like great films. Yeah. But I think I think we're gonna like the movie that we're gonna do next.

Jen 1:07:21

I've seen this movie. It's good. I know it's good. It's gonna take me a long time to watch it. I better start like.

Joe 1:07:25

Yeah, I think it's a long movie. That's the other thing I'm not I'm not looking forward to. Yeah. But um all right. Uh so do do do do. Yeah, ever a lot of comparisons, modern successor of Princess Bride praising its humor and romantic stakes. Who is the Hollywood reporter?

Jen 1:07:45

Who's praising those things?

Joe 1:07:46

The Hollywood reporter is.

Jen 1:07:48

Well, that person doesn't work there anymore. I can guarantee.

Joe 1:07:53

Yeah. Uh so book just book reader sentiment uh was generally positive.

Jen 1:07:59

Though some people because he I'm sorry, I'm not sure.

Joe 1:08:02

She supported it. Go ahead.

Jen 1:08:03

Yeah, that's why I was gonna say.

Joe 1:08:05

Yeah, no, that I think they criticize the Hollywoodization of the ending. Like the the big change in the ending, which I get. Your book you they changed the entire ending. So I get it that if the book readers were upset about that.

Jen 1:08:17

Yeah, I mean, I I think it's hard if you're like a big fan of a book and and the author at that time, um, and you and he's all gung-ho. He's he helped write the script, I think, right?

Tom 1:08:30

No, he didn't he didn't write help write it, but he he picked, he like said, you could write it and and and if you're having a problem, use her. All right.

Jen 1:08:38

He's he's heavily involved in the making of it and and gives it this thumbs up. Yeah. It's hard then to, you know. I feel like you feel like you should also be supporting it if you want to support him. At that time.

Joe 1:08:53

At the time. Yeah. At the time. Don't support him now, please.

Jen 1:08:56

Not now, but at the time.

Tom 1:08:58

Um Yeah, and he even said something. He's like, you know, it started out as a comic, and I have a background from comics, and it really helps me. Like, this is just the Earth 2 version of Stardust. It's just a different It's like Stardust on a different world, right? And like that's we always talk about that whenever we talk about adaptation. Like it's not it's not a duplication, right? It's it's an ultimate telling of it.

Joe 1:09:21

They changed the tone of the story a bit.

Tom 1:09:24

Um Well, you know, you you you we I said in the intro that the book is a meditation on aging, right? In in in part. And like obviously, other than like the witch, yeah. Like the movie is not. Like, there's like the the the prize that he wins is he never dies, you know. There's no worry about any of that. Um there's a little bit in the beginning about like what am I gonna do with my life kind of a thing, but it's very youthful. Yes, you know, yes. So uh yeah, I think that the tone, what questions the the movie is addressing, right? What's philosoph right are just they're different ones. It's very much about like like how do I how do I make my place in the world as a young person? Not like what what does it mean to get older and like what does that mean for the connections I have in my life, you know?

Joe 1:10:16

Yeah. Yep. Uh definitely they went for much more comedic. I think they were trying to make it very broad. They were just trying to broaden the story and the audience for it. Uh it's clear that they were going for like a blockbuster, you know, summer blockbuster, big budget, sweeping cameras and CGI and magic and romance and make it more of like an a action comedy almost. Like action adventure comedy.

Tom 1:10:42

And the studio believed in it. Like it was originally, I think, supposed to come out in in in America in March, which is not a bad time for, but that's not but they moved it to later in the year because they thought it was a you know it was gonna be a big hit, a big hit. Yeah, that it had that kind of uh crossover appeal.

Joe 1:11:00

Yeah, and and like we said, Guiman gave it his blessing. He said uh he liked the ending, the cinematic ending, and he's and he said, you know, it works because we're going for a big budget summer blockbuster type movie, so he he understood that like they needed to change it, and he liked De Niro's performance in it as well.

Jen 1:11:20

I okay.

Joe 1:11:22

I liked it too. I I thought it was fun. I think De Niro didn't write you and you'll agree with me. I don't think he took it that seriously and just had fun with it.

Jen 1:11:31

I just feel like he looked at the script five minutes before he went in there and was just like line, if he forgot his line and he just said it. I don't know.

Tom 1:11:41

Like he uh I I think like it's there are there are snippets like like we said, I think the Nero the De Niro Ricky Gervais scene is very good. Yes, and like the scene where they're leaving the boat and he's landing the boat and like the crew is like everyone brace yourselves. The captain has the helm, like and like he crashes the boat into the lake, and then like he up until like when he whispers to Tristan the advice that he gives him. That's a person, that's a real person, right? Like that's a character, there's choices, it's believable, whatever. But like even in the beginning, like when he's pretending to interrogate them, and he's clearly not gonna murder them, but like he's trying to get the crew to think that he is, like all of it is like there's so much artifice, like it was hard for me to connect that that's a real guy.

Joe 1:12:28

Yeah. Oh, I know. Very different very different character in the book.

Jen 1:12:33

Yeah, just like uh when you say when we say it's like another version, I'm just thinking of like the wheel of time where we'd say it's like another turning. And like there's certain things that like they have to change for the reasons of like XYZ. Like they had to change the ending of this because it doesn't it's not a good movie ending. They kind of just like doo-doo, walk off into the sunset, and that's not a good movie ending. And the villain does nothing, you know? But like the the cha this change of this character to me doesn't I don't think it I guess it adds it adds scenes, but it doesn't add like it doesn't change the story at all to me.

Joe 1:13:12

I I think what it is is is Miramax is looking for a specific type of movie. We want something that we can make as like a whatever summer blockbuster type movie. And then Neil um Matthew Bond comes along and he's like, Well, I got this, I got this idea, and they're like, Okay, we'll make it fit what we want it to be like. So it's just they just adapt it, adapt this story to be a summer movie blockbuster version of the story, and that's what this doesn't seem like a blockbuster to me. No, I think, but that's what they were going for because it doesn't work as well when you do that. It's like adapting the story into this is not necessarily it doesn't fit. It's like putting the square peg in the round hole type of scenario, I think, is what really happened here. And like I said, I think there was some there was some conflict between uh Vaughn and the studio on like how they wanted it to be, and I think we get a little bit of both sides potentially, and it just doesn't work well together. Ah, is there anything else? I didn't even really go through my notes to be honest with you.

Tom 1:14:20

This was all from No, we just had a lot of stuff to say.

Joe 1:14:23

We did have a lot of stuff to say. Uh uh Whoa we didn't talk about Claire Danes' glowing.

Tom 1:14:29

I thought she was gonna quantum leap. I'm I'm cool with that.

Joe 1:14:33

She started glowing very like fairly early on in the movie before we even understand or learn about what the glowing means. So much so that I I didn't know if it was but she's the she's not always glowing though. It was it was only start it would only happen at certain times, and this is before we learn, like where it really comes becomes prominent. So much so that I thought it was just the lighting. I didn't realize that I was like, is she glowing? And I'm like, oh no, that must be just the lighting or whatever. And then again, it would be like, wait a sec, is she glowing again? And and then eventually, you know, you learn what it is.

Jen 1:15:05

But um Yeah, I think it that's okay though, that like we don't have to understand what it is, you know, that it's happening. It would be weird if it only happened after we knew about it, even if she had had those feelings before. I think that's okay with me.

Joe 1:15:21

You know, her professing her love to him and then and then them sleeping together, that's all added. So yeah, yeah.

Tom 1:15:29

So I I wanna they were not, it was not intended to make the audience think that they have sex.

Joe 1:15:35

Well that while she's naked and they're in the bed together.

Tom 1:15:38

He's fully clothed. And I mean, I don't know if this is true or not, because this is an IMDB fact, so take it for what you will.

Joe 1:15:48

This is where you get the real the real facts.

Tom 1:15:50

No, no, but but I will say this, it it did look like it could have been real. So they were not intended to sleep together. She came out of the bath, was in like a towel, fell asleep in the towel. No, no, he fell asleep, he wakes up in the morning, and then when they put the edit in, they're like, oh well, it really kind of looks like they slept together. So the shirt that he is wearing in that scene was digitally added after the fact to have a shirt on. Because he didn't have a shirt on, and like it was not they were supposed to just be asleep. Right?

Joe 1:16:25

It didn't change anything.

Jen 1:16:26

But why can't they sleep together?

Tom 1:16:28

Um I don't think they could.

Jen 1:16:30

I think it was just why would it be so bad about that?

Tom 1:16:33

I I I don't know, other than the fact that like it's so clear that they slept together.

Jen 1:16:40

They just wearing a towel under the blanket.

Joe 1:16:42

They just she professed her love to him to reveal that he knew what she said and felt the same way. They kissed, and then the next scene is they wake up in the same bed and she's naked. There's no way that's full of things. There's no way if there's no way.

Tom 1:17:00

No, there's no way that anyone had sex with her, went up, got dressed, and went back to bed.

Jen 1:17:09

Well, maybe, yeah, sometimes you fall asleep and you don't get up to put your pajamas on.

Joe 1:17:14

Maybe he went out.

Jen 1:17:15

Maybe he did.

Joe 1:17:15

Maybe he went out to get a cup of coffee. He did not get undressed or a pack of cigarettes.

Jen 1:17:21

He got dressed, they put everything back on.

Joe 1:17:23

That's it. No. So like this is terrible. No, if that's what they thought, I'm saying they should all be fired.

Tom 1:17:30

I'm saying they filmed like the intention of the scene was not to imply Then they should have she should have been wearing clothes and they should have been above the covers. Well, I mean they they said Above the covers.

Joe 1:17:43

Yes.

Tom 1:17:44

Six feet above the covers. She barked.

Jen 1:17:46

If she had a nightgown on, it would have been ambiguous. You wouldn't have known. But the fact that she had no she was not wearing any clothes, like you don't go to sleep in a tower.

Joe 1:17:56

I don't remember.

Jen 1:17:56

She's the blanket is like here and her arm is there's nothing on top of her.

Joe 1:18:00

Yes. It weird is that she's negative. It appears to be like.

Jen 1:18:03

The blanket is covering you she's wearing the TV slash movie blanket that women wear implying after they had sex, and the men wear the blanket. It's like an L-shaped blanket.

Joe 1:18:18

Maybe he got maybe they were just doing but he's not fully clothed, Tom. You told us he's wearing they digitally added his shirt.

Tom 1:18:26

Like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Jen 1:18:27

That's where the money went.

Tom 1:18:29

Like if to your to your question, like why would it be I don't think it would be I don't think it would be bad. Except A, I think that they thought they were making a movie for kids or like that kids could watch.

Jen 1:18:42

There's a lot of sexual jokes in this movie. No, no, no.

Joe 1:18:45

I'm telling you, even Matthew Bond was that was not his intention whatsoever.

Tom 1:18:49

I know, but like again, I feel like this isn't a movie for adults. Like it's not it's like a young adult movie.

Joe 1:18:55

It's yeah, this movie's for no, this movie's for grown-ups, like us.

Tom 1:18:59

I don't yes, it is. It is not for me. I'm telling you 100%. It's not well, maybe not for you. Or any other person that I would consider an adult. It is too much of a kid's like I don't know. This is not an adult fairy tale in my mind. There's nothing adult about this. No one's like their main characters are not adults. They're she's a star. Well, yeah, she's mortal, but she's also Claire Days.

Joe 1:19:25

I really like the idea of like a fully adult rated R-ish adult fan, like fantasy fairy tale. Sorry, adult fairy tale. Not like hardcore, but like yeah, not rated X fair.

Tom 1:19:40

But no, like a fairy tale, like a I I don't think this movie was good either, but like a brother's grim.

Joe 1:19:47

Like a this book could have been this book adaption could have been that. Like they could have done that with the with the adaptation of this. They just chose not to.

Tom 1:19:56

Yeah. Like I think you get that more. I think nowadays stuff like that is is in the trappings of science fiction, not in fantasy. Like I would say, I would say Dark City is a fairy tale.

Joe 1:20:09

Oh, that's a good, that's actually a really good example of one, yeah.

Tom 1:20:12

Um I like it.

Joe 1:20:14

So, yeah. Alright, thank you. Do we want to give our ratings or do you have anything else?

Tom 1:20:18

Uh anyone, I think we give our ratings.

Joe 1:20:22

Anyone want to go first?

Tom 1:20:23

Our star ratings.

Joe 1:20:24

Our star ratings. How many star dusts? How many Claire Danes do you give this one? Evans.

Tom 1:20:30

Um, I will I guess I'll go first this time. Despite like me basingly bashing it for for most of the film, most of the runtime of this episode, I didn't hate this movie. I just didn't think it was good. Like, um, I'm gonna give it two and a quarter stars. I think this was a like a perfectly cromulent movie.

Jen 1:20:49

Oh my god, I was gonna say the same thing.

Joe 1:20:51

You should have gone first. I'm I'm close with you, Tom. I'm gonna give it a 2.5 because it was entertaining. Uh like there were definitely points of the movie that was entertaining, and then just other points. That was that was part of the problem with me. That's the consistency of this movie was not there. I felt like the editing and like the jumping from just the the editing wasn't really good, and the music was not aligned up with it. And I felt like if you're gonna if the story is not and the script isn't gonna be that great, you need to get those other parts right. Right. Right.

Jen 1:21:26

Uh the word cromulent has been on my mind because Dan said it's like in the dictionary now.

Tom 1:21:32

Amazing.

Jen 1:21:34

But anyway, I also believe it was perfectly cromulent. But I'm gonna give it, I'm gonna give it a 2.5. It's like just right in the middle, like a little bit worse, and it would have been just completely awful. It's like right on the cusp of being an okay movie.

Joe 1:21:51

Yeah.

Jen 1:21:51

For me.

Joe 1:21:52

Um successful adaptation, Jen?

Jen 1:21:56

I mean, who am I to go against the author who created the entire story?

Tom 1:22:02

Well, I think you could go against the record.

Jen 1:22:05

Uh yeah, I I I don't I don't know if an if a more um faithful adaptation would have been a good movie. It's definitely a better book than a movie, but I feel like some of it probably would have been a little slow on the screen. So I get like some of the changes, but uh some of them I just don't understand why you did that. Like why did you change this to that? Why did you make that decision? Why'd you make this character act in this way or say this or so I I don't I don't really think it was a very good adaptation.

Joe 1:22:40

Yeah. I don't think so either. Um I'm not the book I'm not saying the book was awesome. The book was it was good, it was entertaining.

Jen 1:22:49

Yeah, I enjoyed it.

Joe 1:22:50

It was different. Um but the it was definitely better than this movie.

Jen 1:22:56

Yeah.

Joe 1:22:57

That's for sure. But that's a hard I feel like that's a hard book to turn into a movie. Like when I read that, I was like, why did they adapt this into a movie? I I like reading it, you you don't think this is like a gonna be a good movie, or at least the type of movie that they were going for.

Jen 1:23:12

It's it's not as much of like Terry Pratchett or um Douglas Adams, where there's just like tangents. A little bit. It's kind of like that. But that stuff is hard to adapt. Like Hitchhiker's Guy, I felt like it's hard to get. I like the Hitchhiker's Guy movie, but it's it's hard to get that feeling of when you're reading it and you're like all over the place. I love it, but you can't bring that to a movie. So it's you it doesn't have as much you can, but it's not the same.

Joe 1:23:42

It has to be done really well. You have to have good actors, you have to have the director and a good script, and it has to be paced the proper way. And you know, obviously, like those things are very much like a lot of jokes and you know it's hard to sarcastic things. And if you have the right actors, you can do it.

Jen 1:23:59

Yeah, a good movie, but it won't be the same as reading it.

Tom 1:24:04

I I generally generally agree with you. You know what movie made me think that you could they gave me hope that you could still do a hitchhiker's guide film that is a similar experience. Um, The Big Short.

Jen 1:24:17

I've never I don't think I've seen that.

Joe 1:24:19

Oh The Big Short That's a very good movie. I love that movie. So the Big Short, like Steve Carell. It's about the the the 2008, you know, the mortgage crisis.

Jen 1:24:29

Oh, I'm thinking of a total other movie. I don't know what I'm thinking of. Yeah, it's a big one. I think I'm thinking of get shorty.

Tom 1:24:35

Oh, not so the big short is it's about the financial crisis, and every time like a concept comes up that the audience needs to understand, like what's behind it, they just have somebody famous like explain it to the audience.

Joe 1:24:49

For example, there's a cut where it's Margot Roby in a bathtub sipping champagne, explaining what like subprime mortgages are.

Jen 1:24:58

But she's not in the movie, no, she's not in the movie.

Tom 1:25:01

She's Margot Roby. Okay, yeah, and then Anthony Bourdain's like like in a kitchen, like chopping fish or whatever, and he explains it. So, like those are like it's just a visual aside, like it's like a camera pan to this, and then they explain it, and then it cuts back to the narrative. And that made me feel like, oh, that's how you can kind of do that.

Joe 1:25:20

Yeah, yeah. Um you have to break the third wall.

Tom 1:25:23

Yeah.

Joe 1:25:24

Um, it's got yeah, that's I really like that movie. Now I want to watch that movie. That's got um what's his name's in that too? Christian Bale, right? Is the Christian Bale?

Tom 1:25:33

It's Christian Bale, uh Ryan Gosling, and Steve Corell are like the three like basic.

Joe 1:25:38

Oh, yes, Ryan Gosling. Um, and then um, yeah, you get those weird cutscenes. There's a couple of other actors who are become who become famous later. Like the guy from um Succession is in it. Uh well it's Adam McKay, so and Will Farrell, so it's the same producer, uh producers. And yeah, who else? There's I feel like there's a few other people in it that are the big swords.

Tom 1:26:00

Yeah yes, there are.

Joe 1:26:02

Uh anyway.

Tom 1:26:03

Um let's let's advise our our our our Brad Pitt is in it. I forgot about that. Oh yes, oh yeah, he's the guy who is like every time like we like every time the the the unemployment rate goes or whatever it is, like the inflation rate goes up like this when people lose their jobs. Yeah. Uh yeah, Jeremy Strong, like you said. Jeremy Strong, yeah. Yeah, Marissa Tomei. Finn Whitrock. Okay. Who's Finn Whitrock? He's uh Jamie Shipley. Uh who is he? Oh, who is he? I don't know. I didn't like that name. I I think he was in like I'm old. I don't know. I think he was in Glee. I'm not sure. All right.

Joe 1:26:41

Oh American Horror Story. Okay. Well, I think we're done talking about startups.

Jen 1:26:46

Yeah, I would say.

Joe 1:26:48

I think it's a good time to wrap it up. I want to remind everyone to follow us on social media. You can follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, Blue Sky. Join us in Discord to continue the conversation there. If you want to know what movies and books we're going to be reading and watching, come into Discord. They're posted there ahead of time. So you can watch or read along with us. Um we also post our episodes on YouTube. So go to our YouTube page to like and subscribe, Britain Reviewers who ever listened to podcasts, and check out our Patreon page to support us that way. Links to all the aforementioned information are included in the show notes to this episode. Tom, you have any final thoughts about Stardust?

Tom 1:27:25

Um No. I I no. I'm I've I'm thawed out.

Joe 1:27:30

Jen?

Jen 1:27:31

Honey, you're wearing a bathrobe.

Joe 1:27:34

Thanks everyone for listening, and you'll hear us next time.