Tom 0:00

If the original book concludes with Bilbo getting knocked unconscious and waking up when the drama is over, the final film is a $250 million heavy metal album cover with physics-defying GOAT Calvary. It's less a cinematic resolution and more a grueling endurance test, proving that if you have enough Legolas-shaped cheat codes, you can eventually turn a whimsical fairy tale into a grim, never-ending Warhammer tournament.

Joe 0:42

Did you see the uh well you probably did, right? The Harry Potter uh trailer or teaser?

unknown 0:48

Yeah.

Joe 0:48

I did I did not. Oh, I posted it in the in Discord.

Tom 0:52

No, this it's in the past for me.

Joe 0:54

It looks pretty cool. Um I'm probably gonna now have to reread the books so I can remember what's actually happens in the book versus the movie.

Tom 1:05

I think you know we'll see, we'll see how the rest of our our our of this series plays out. But I think you probably enjoy the show more if you only vaguely remembered what happened in the books.

Joe 1:14

Really? You think it's gonna go far like astray from the books?

Tom 1:18

I think that it will, yes. Really? Interesting.

Jen 1:22

I never read the first two books. Because I watched the movies and I was like, this is enjoyable. I don't need to read it. And then I saw the third movie and I was like, what in the world is going on here? And then I was like, I'm I have to read these books because they're not explaining anything. And uh then I read the rest of them from then on.

Joe 1:40

Interesting. I never went back and read the first two, huh?

Jen 1:43

No. Because I feel like I've always heard that they're pretty accurate. Well, they're for kids, but they're also pretty accurate to the books. There's some stuff not in them, but for the most part.

Joe 1:54

They do yeah, they're good adaptations of the books. There's like a couple of things that cut out, but nothing. Yeah. That's like when they start getting late, third, fourth, that's when they start cutting out a lot of stuff.

Tom 2:05

Yeah, because the books are huge, right?

Joe 2:07

Yeah. The books do become huge. So I don't know how many episodes the season's gonna be, but yeah, for the first two books, they are short, they're pretty short books.

Jen 2:17

So if yeah, I mean if if they're eight episodes, you're gonna have like eight hours for the first one instead of like two and a half hours.

Joe 2:26

Yeah, and I think you could tell that whole story pretty well in about three or four hours. Like accurate to the book. So I mean, you're probably just gonna get a lot more like in the books. I'm thinking of the visuals, right? In the books, i they can just quickly describe something in a paragraph when you might spend more time seeing it in the show. Um, but yeah, I'm excited. I'm hyped. I don't even I don't even remember when it's coming out, but I'm excited.

Jen 2:53

The Christmas, I think.

Joe 2:54

Oh god, so much stuff to do at Christmas with Dune. This this is Shelf to Screen, the podcast where we discuss sci-fi and fantasy, literary adaptations to the big and or small screen. I am Joe Perry.

Jen 3:07

I'm Jenniz Grove.

Tom 3:09

And I am Tom Kakosa.

Joe 3:10

And on this episode, we are wrapping up the Hobbit trilogy. Uh The Battle of the Five Armies. I'm I'm sad that this is over. No, I'm not sad.

Jen 3:24

I my first question is Oh, you have a question already. What was the fifth army in the movie?

Joe 3:30

The the Eagles.

Jen 3:32

Okay. They didn't count in the book. Yeah, they are. They weren't the fifth army. Yeah, they're the five armies. They're in it, but they're not the fifth army. They are the fifth army. They're the fifth army. In the book, it says that the fifth army is like the wolves in the war or w slash wargs.

Joe 3:46

No. The eagles. It's the men and men.

Jen 3:49

Men, elves, dwarfs, versus orcs and wolves. Yeah, no, orcs and orcs.

Tom 3:54

Oh no.

Jen 3:55

Bro, I just read it. It is.

Tom 3:57

It's the orcs and the book. It's those are the five armies. So in the movie, it's the men, the it's no. In the movie, there's two different two orc armies. Two orc armies.

Jen 4:07

Guys, I don't know if you heard this, but it it's a two-front war. Shout out to mentioned, specifically mentioned that it they can't fight a two-front war. So yes, I guess it's the two orc armies. I don't know. It's the eagles.

Tom 4:22

It's well maybe it is in this. It's not in this in the book. It's the eagles. No, it's not in the book. It's not in the book. And by reading up for for this, I did a little research, Joe. Uh it is well no, I'm just saying you usually do a lion's share of that, but I do it is in the movie definitively the two orc armies, like as the bad armies. And in the book, it is. It's the war, it's the orcs and the wolves, or the two armies. The eagles are not. Every time we say the eagles, I just think of Glenn Fry like every single time we said it.

Joe 4:54

Yeah, I know. That's good.

Tom 4:56

Which they're not the Eagles, they're just Eagles.

Joe 4:59

Alright, well, I'll agree to disagree. Okay. No, I won't agree. I won't. All right. I'm I'm gonna start off with a hot take here. Ooh. I I enjoyed this movie.

Jen 5:15

Oh no. Wow.

Joe 5:18

I did. I and I will say, here's another hot this is probably not a hot take, but this is probably the most accurate of the three movies to the books, in the sense of what happens in it. You know, not going into the they obviously don't go into details about the army battle, really. That might be.

Jen 5:38

Yeah, I guess it's accurate. Yes, there's armies that fight. Yeah, there's armies fighting. That's what you're gonna break it down that that far. Yeah, sure. Okay.

Tom 5:50

Oh, okay. That's uh that is Okay. All right. That's uh you you said that you should the bar.

Joe 5:56

Um agree to disagree.

Tom 5:58

Oh, you disagree?

Joe 5:59

You think the other movies are more accurate?

Jen 6:01

No, oh that I don't know. I don't I didn't I didn't like the movie.

Joe 6:05

Oh, okay, okay.

Tom 6:06

I yeah, I just I thought the battle was fun.

Joe 6:09

The battle was fun.

Tom 6:10

The first movie's not good, but I think it's fairly accurate.

Joe 6:12

Uh well, I'm not gonna go back there. We already talked about that ad nauseum. So don't live in the past. I don't think so. Yeah. We want to go back and talk about it.

Tom 6:20

The sooner the sooner this episode is over, the happier I'll be.

Joe 6:23

So um So it right at jump I okay. The beginning, they make a whole story out of smog, the smog attack.

Jen 6:31

Um that part was, I mean, not very far off. It was kind of the same mostly.

Joe 6:41

I I the the overhead shots of smog, you know, burning up Lake Town was very, very fake, obviously. Yeah, very CG. It looked very video gamey to me.

Tom 6:54

Yes.

Joe 6:54

This most of the scene, anytime they did overhead shots of Smog uh flying over Lake Town, burning it, it was very video gamey to me.

Jen 7:02

So yeah.

Joe 7:04

Um, but I think they would they there was a lot of nice fun things in this movie that I enjoyed, like how Bard escaped, and it was almost uh it reminded me of Pirates of the Caribbean. Um how Bard escapes when he loops the rope down and catches the master in the boat and then pull and it just pulls pulls him out or pulls the wall, I guess, out of the uh the jail that he's in.

Jen 7:27

Yes. Okay.

Joe 7:28

Uh that was yeah, that was very Jack Sparrow to me, I thought.

Tom 7:32

So and then of course he is he is a smuggler in this in this that's true.

Joe 7:36

He is a smuggler. He's not a captain of the guard.

Jen 7:39

Oh, can you guys is that his wife or his daughter?

Joe 7:42

His daughter. Their wife's dead.

Jen 7:44

Two girls and one boy. Yeah. Right? Okay. Because Dan thought it was his wife, and I was like, well, she looks like she's 16 to me. So I don't think it's his wife.

Tom 7:52

Yeah.

Jen 7:53

He better erase that. His wife is.

Tom 7:55

But he said, I didn't say it. He said it.

Jen 7:57

Okay. That's what I thought. Uh okay, I'm just making sure that I was right. Okay.

Joe 8:01

Yeah. I liked how, and I know we're getting right into the movie, but um What else are we supposed to? Well, no, I don't like talking a little bit about the adaptation to this movie, but you know, we did talk about how everything was filmed at once, so it's kind of all one movie. It's all one movie in the sense of the production-wise. Um, so I don't think there's anything in the background to talk about necessarily with the production because we've already covered it for the most part. Yeah. Um, this movie, there's a lot of firsts, I feel like, that I've never seen before in this movie. You know, Bard Bard smashes through the roof from the bottom. I don't think I've ever seen anyone smash a roof out from inside. Um, usually it's reverse. Usually people are smashing the roof from the top to get in. Um, you don't see that one every day, and I don't think I've ever seen that that in a movie. So that was kind of enjoyable as well. And then using his son to aim the black arrow.

Jen 9:04

What the as like a bow? Yeah, that was weird.

Joe 9:08

Somebody called child protective services on Bard. And then he's like, a little to the left.

Jen 9:15

But also he was having a conversation with Smog, and then he smog charged, and I was like, I I thought they were right next to each other. How are they hearing each other? He was all the way across. He was like five blocks away.

Joe 9:27

Well, dragons have great hearing, Jen. Uh uh.

Jen 9:31

Sure.

Joe 9:32

I don't know. And a lot of voices. So um yeah, that was just that was absurd. I mean, there's a lot of things.

Jen 9:41

There's so many things that are absurd in this movie. A lot of things that look like a video game.

Joe 9:46

Anything with Legolas is absurd. Anything with Legolas, 100% absurd. I feel like they're like, how how much further can we take this? They're like, let's let's have Legolas do this, and they're like, no, no, we have to go one step further than that. Like, think of the most absurd thing you can think of, and let's go one past, let's let's go to 11.

Jen 10:07

Something did happen in this movie, which I'll bring up later, that never happened to him in Lord of the Rings. And I actually said, Well, this never happened, so then it happened, and I was really excited about it. So we'll talk about that later.

Tom 10:19

Oh, I think I know what it is.

Jen 10:21

If it never happened in Lord of the Rings.

Tom 10:24

I know what it is. Uh I on the list thing, I think we talked a little bit about it last week, but it really bothers me. The Lord of the Rings films, like the original trilogy, are so good at like leveling the characters up as the movies progress. So like they start out as like, you know, a mid-level party with one higher level character like you know, one higher level character and and four low-level characters, right? But like everyone else, like Legolas and Aragorn and uh Gimli and uh Boromir, they're all like, I don't know, like level eight to ten, eight to twelve, like in there. You know, Gandalf's very high level, and the hobbits are all like levels one or two. And as the movies progress, they get better at all the stuff that they do. But I I feel like they're like, well, we've already seen the Laylist like does all this stuff, so let's just have him continue to get better, even though this is the past.

Jen 11:17

This is the past, yeah.

Joe 11:18

Yeah, that was yes, exactly. He does more absurd stuff in this than he does in any of the Hobbit movies. Well, maybe he's old. He's getting old in the Lord of the Rings.

Tom 11:27

Yes, man. He I, you know, the Hobbit, the first Hobbit movie, they're all trying to kill one like job. One troll. One troll. Yeah. The third Hobbit movie, he's like killing all elephants and sliding down their trunks and doing all sorts of cool stuff alone.

Jen 11:39

That's part of his cool. But that's like the last movie.

Tom 11:41

He just he levels up. Like they all are able to do much more at the end of those films than they are at the beginning.

Jen 11:48

Let's talk about the movies that are good. I like um in Two Towers when he fires the arrow at the wargs and then he swings up backwards onto the horse with Gimli. Like he grabs the horse like this and swings up. That part's cool. And it looks good. It's like a little bit weird looking, but you believe it. A lot of stuff in this movie. I'm just like, what uh why does it look so bad?

Joe 12:09

I feel like I feel because I think they really went just all like CGI, CGI, CGI, CGI.

Jen 12:16

Yeah, and it's terrible. I know I've literally have the same critique for all three of these movies, but I just the lighting, just the CGI, the effect, like everything is just bad. I don't know.

Joe 12:25

I mean, it's that maybe it's noticeable more with that 48 frames per second. Yeah. Uh frame rate.

Jen 12:31

Probably. Maybe. I don't know. But it's yeah. Like the I don't know if we're up to this yet, but the the necromancer fight is just awful. I hated it. I thought it was terrible. And why is Gan Gandalf and Galadriel is like the best love story in this movie? Like, why are they like what's going on here? It's so weird. Yeah, I mean It's so weird.

Joe 12:54

They, you know, I'm just putting I'm chopping it up to they just wanted more female characters, so they brought Galadriel to give her a bigger part just so there's another female character.

Jen 13:03

I guess.

Joe 13:04

Um, I think so. I was happy though that Saruman showed up because when Galadriel and then Galadriel shows up, and I'm like, okay, is she gonna be the one there? And then El Ron pops up, and I'm like, okay, that's cool. And then Sara, I was like, okay, good. Saruman showed up. Like, at least we've got something of what kind of happens in the in the story, right? This isn't in the book. And then, you know, they again I feel like they're they're trying to do more fake out deaths with like Gandalf and Galadrio. Like, we we know they're not gonna die, like they're in the other movies. Um and then I was I was wondering, I thought really hard about this because I know I've been kind of uh pooping on this about how they keep it's like they're trying to set up the Lord of the Rings movies, even those movies came out 10 years prior. But then I started thinking, like, I guess they're they're looking at it maybe from a long-term perspective where people, new people coming into this this world are gonna start with the Hobbit movies.

Jen 14:00

Oh. I kind of hope they do, actually.

Joe 14:03

Some they don't because they won't watch the good ones. It only gets better. Well, that's what I'm wondering. What are your thoughts on that? Do you think they were like that was their intention with this? But let's say it was, because they're really, really setting up the Lord of the Rings movies in the in these movies. How do you think that it's hard for us to say, but how do you think that works with newcomers to this? Do you think it does a good job of setting up the Lord of the Rings movies?

Tom 14:31

Um no. I don't think these movies do a particularly good job at anything, but I don't think that they're trying to set up the Lord of the Rings movies. I think they're trying to desperately remind you that these subpar pieces of filmmaking are part of the movies that you really like. I don't think it's it's I don't think it's done to be part of like a grand tapestry. I think it's done to to scratch nostalgia that's not really even old enough to have set in yet. Like that's how I feel. I feel like it's it's um I don't know. Yeah, I I I So no, I don't think I I don't think anything in these movies, it's not like oh, I want to see what happens next to these things. It's just a weird sidetrack for the story that these movies are about. I don't know.

Joe 15:20

Well then at the end too.

Tom 15:21

And then I'm gonna watch the Lord of the Rings movies and it'll be like, well, why is Bilbo not in them? Like, why is Bilbo old? Who's this guy? Why do I care about his weird nephew?

Jen 15:29

Like it's not weird. Why is he weird? Well it ends like on the day of fellow when fellowship starts. Like you're you're seeing the from the other side of the conversation.

Joe 15:42

Yeah, I mean they tied it in there. That that's again, that's for the people who've already seen Lord of the Rings. So I guess they need to make up their mind. Are you trying to set up the Lord of the Rings or are you trying to call back to Lord of the Rings or call ahead to Lord of the Rings? I don't know what it's trying to do, to be honest with you. I think it's trying to set it up and it's just not working well.

Tom 16:01

But so on that, like one of the things I was um one of the things I noticed in reading up on this movie that I didn't really see in the first two, but um Peter Jackson did not like the final like that's why they are extended versions of these all of these movies. He did not like what he saw in the in the theater of the first two films, and like interviewed like he felt like the studio was. He's the director, he should have known that before he did not have apparently he didn't have final edit, and he did not like what the studio most directors most directors do not but get final edit on the on the film. So I got you there. Like inter being interviewed walking into the premiere of this movie, like he was asked, had he seen the final film, and he said, No, I I and I'm not particularly looking forward to seeing what the studio did with it.

Joe 16:51

I think he saw it and he knew it was shit, and he was just trying to cover himself. There's no way Peter Jackson did not get to have final cut on this. That's ridiculous. I don't believe that.

Jen 17:01

I don't know how anyone could look at these movies and be like, that's it. That's it, that's the movie, we're done. Like, that's what you want it to look like?

Joe 17:08

This is this specific movie.

Jen 17:11

Any of them, any of them. Just like that's it? You agree? This is the best? Okay.

Tom 17:18

I well, I I mean, whatever. I I do think um I think at a certain point they're pot committed, right? They're in there, it's day 138 of filming, and they're like, wow, there's 13 dwarfs, there's 13 dwarves here, eleven of them zero charisma.

Joe 17:38

Well, Tom, Tom. You said they weren't. Yeah, but the right ones. I got the biggest. Balin has great charisma.

Jen 17:45

I love Balin.

Tom 17:46

Ballin and the one who's uh Achille. He's got some charisma, right? Bofur.

Jen 17:53

Bofur. I like him.

Tom 17:55

He's he has some physical comedy pits.

Jen 17:57

What happened to Dwallin? Because he was with them at the end and then he just disappeared.

Joe 18:01

Yeah, he was not dead. No, he's not dead.

Jen 18:04

He just was gone.

Joe 18:05

Yeah, I I Jenna noticed the same thing too. I was like, he was fighting, and then he was just gone, and then they like never went back to show him like what he was doing.

Jen 18:13

All right, there's ten dwarves. I was like, all right, I guess Dwollen lived, but I don't know.

Joe 18:17

Yeah, he lives.

Jen 18:18

Um there's a lot of things that I'm wondering if they're in the descendant edition. Yeah, maybe he's in there. My number one gripe are the wereworms, first of all, that don't exist. Did you see the wereworms? Like I didn't this is not a fever dream. Yes! There's one part where I swear.

Joe 18:39

There's so much in this movie, like shot-wise. Like I I I could have seen you could have told me, you know, Michael Jordan was riding a freaking horse, and I wouldn't even have noticed.

Jen 18:53

Like earlier, and you're like, oh, what's that? Oh, yeah, yeah. And then they bust out of the ground, like right when the fight starts, do absolutely nothing, and are never seen or heard from again. So I'm sitting here waiting for the worms to come back the whole movie, and they never come back or do anything. But they're and I want to know if they're wereworms, what is the other half? Are they half man, half worm, or half wolf and what's the other half of the worm?

Joe 19:21

Did they say were worms, though? Who called them were worms?

Jen 19:24

Am I crazy? Somebody in chat tell me they didn't say were saying he saw it in the recording. I watched with close captioning, so I know they said wereworms.

Tom 19:32

They didn't say where are the worms.

Jen 19:34

No, I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna look for a picture of them. Hold on.

Tom 19:37

And they never came back. I was like, animal is a person.

Jen 19:41

Okay, well they would look like the worms from Dune. Wereworms, battle. Or the graboids. The five armies. I don't know. I'm I'm I was so mad because You know what's funny too?

Joe 19:55

I I actually thought, so you know, we were we were talking about the Sauron bit kind of controversial Hobbit movie scene. It's controversial? Okay. Why it's it's so controversial I didn't even know it was in the movie because I don't even remember seeing it. But to be honest, there were parts where I wasn't really paying attention like I you know, I had to run and do something and I didn't pause it.

Jen 20:17

So this one was the best. Can't find a good shot. But yeah, so anyway, that's me for the rest of the movie looking for worms that never came back. And I was wondering, maybe there was a cut scene with worms that was appearing in the extended edition or something.

Joe 20:30

Well, this movie was really you know where it really did well, this movie? The uh the steeds. The steeds were amazing. I mean, Thrandwils, Thrandrils, I can't even say his name.

Tom 20:44

That elk giant elk. The elk thing was alright.

Joe 20:48

Oh, that was cool. He gore he gores the orcs on the elk's, you know, whore antlers, and then he just swings his sword and chops all their heads off. What the fuck?

Tom 20:59

Yeah.

Joe 20:59

It was so absurd. It was like I was, but I was I was I was eating it up, the absurdity of this.

Tom 21:05

Like, that's the kind of like That's fine. More of that, please.

Jen 21:11

Um I like uh where did the rams come from? Did the dwarves bring them? Yeah, the rams, that's the other word. I was like, where did they come from?

Joe 21:21

Well, they were riding on pigs. Right. Right first they showed Dane had a pig. Dane had a pig, and then the rest came out with the rams. Well, he said goats. He called them goats because he says I think bring out the goats or something like that. But yes, Jen, they look like rams to me as well. Uh what else we got here? Sorry, I'm I got so much I'm trying to go through my notes. There's so much.

Tom 21:44

So yeah, I I go ahead.

Joe 21:46

No, you go ahead.

Tom 21:47

All right. So this isn't this is you know, whatever. It's in the book, it the same thing happens, but this bothers me. And I feel like it was something they could have done. I I know they weren't going to because of the way the other movies are let up, but like The dwarves are are are are clearly influenced and inspired by uh the Jewish uh peoples of the earth. Um like I think they were more inspired by um by Norse uh No no no no specifically like the dwarven language, the runes, the way all that stuff, and the fact that like they're um there are lost people without a home, right? I gotcha. There's a lot of that in in Tolkien's uh you know uh mythology, like building world, you know, world building of it, right? And with their I I'm gonna call like for Tolkien's their obsession with money, right? That was that was Tolkien's belief, whatever. He wasn't uh for whatever it's worth Tolkien wasn't an anti-Semite, but he was somebody who I think was comfortable that a lot of things that were stereotypical may have been true, right?

Joe 22:52

Yeah.

Tom 22:53

I didn't need to have so much of like Thorin being obsessed with money and like that being like it's it's from the drove his grandfather mad. I know. Like I was saying, I can again that they built the whole move, like the whole trilogy is set up that this is gonna happen. It's not like a it's not like fate uh like a false note so much as like you've changed so much already. This is what you you feel like this is the thing that you want to like really hit on. Yeah, right.

Joe 23:25

Well, I mean, yeah, in the book, I mean it's accurate to the book because he does become obsessed with the Arkansas in the book. You just don't like get as much of it in the book. And there's that there's that scene right in the beginning. Um, I think it's right after the whole the whole what's it called? Um, the smog scene. It goes and it's him, right? And it's Thorin, and he's like, I really I I wrote down in my notes, Thorin has a sickness. Gold fever. Because that's what it is. And then we get that scene later on where it's like he's got he's on like a gold acid trip or something where he's it's like slow motion things, and then there's rivers of gold, liquid gold.

Jen 24:07

He was he was getting over he was coming out of it at that point.

Joe 24:11

Yes.

Jen 24:12

He was getting over it.

Joe 24:13

That was like gold fever withdrawal, I guess. It was, yeah.

Jen 24:16

Or the fever was gonna it was breaking.

Joe 24:18

Yes, his fever was breaking, yeah.

Jen 24:20

Yes.

Joe 24:20

He was sweating it out, I guess. I don't know. That was that was a little too much. Yeah. Uh but yes, Tom, they really, really, really drive it home that hey, Thorin's a little greedy and obsessed with gold and treasure. And they wanted to make sure that the people watching knew that.

unknown 24:40

Right.

Joe 24:41

So they had they had to remind them, remind us every, I don't know, 15 minutes, I guess. I mean, this battle's like what two hours of the movie is just the battle?

Tom 24:51

It's pretty much the entire, yeah.

Joe 24:52

Basically the entire movie.

Tom 24:53

So I'm gonna go, I'm gonna hit on this too, because this bothers me the whole time. And I didn't say it in the other two films. Um all the dwarves, or almost all the dwarves, have some level of prosthetic.

Joe 25:04

Right.

Tom 25:05

Well, I don't know if all of them do, but most of the other, right? Yeah, not Keely, a few of them, but like something, right? A lot of the dwarves and Gimli in the in their original uh trilogy have like bulbous flat noses. But they made Thorin have a big nose.

Jen 25:22

Because bulbous flat noses aren't sexy, Tom. I understand. Don't you understand?

Joe 25:27

We already couldn't take away the sexiness of the character.

Jen 25:33

Anybody that needed to be sexy could not have a bulbous flat nose. So Corey kept his regular nose. That was a note.

Joe 25:39

That was the first note that Peter Jackson got from the studio. It's all wrong. It's too bulbous. More sexy.

Tom 25:47

That's bananas.

Joe 25:50

No, no. All right. I want to go back because we keep we keep for we keep veering away from it, but I wanted to talk a little bit more about the Sauron scene and that whole uh Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh uh what the hell? Go what the hell's the name of the tower now? Dol Goldor. Dolgod. Dol Goldor, yeah. Dolgador. Galgado.

Jen 26:09

Um Dolgodor, Dolgador.

Joe 26:11

Well, the other fun word in this is to say a lot, and and Legolas says this a lot. Gundabad. They love saying Gundabad, the where the where the other uh orcs are coming, Bulg and his army of orcs. Um, that was a lot of fun to say. Anyway, getting back to Dol Guldor. Um I was actually surprised that they wrapped this up so quickly and sh and and kind of pretty because there was only like one scene, right? It almost all happened in one scene.

Jen 26:40

Well, yeah, it's been happening though. Like Gandalf was captured and the last book. The last movie, I mean. And then all the uh top guys came back to help him.

Joe 26:51

So they it is clear that Gandalf knows that well everybody knows or who's there that that's Sauron. Well, they like teleported, they shot him to Mordor.

Jen 27:03

But he literally went and like landed in Mordor. Let Gondor know that he's there.

Joe 27:11

Yeah. He's their problem now. This is why, yeah, we better let It was just like get him away from us. Yeah. We should all we should alert those people because uh he's done.

Jen 27:22

We just sent him over by them.

Joe 27:23

Yeah, we just sent them over there. You you you get him. Uh handle this. But yeah, I guess they really are again. This is one of those parts where I feel like they're setting up the Lord of the Rings movies because they have to say that that's Sauron. We can't not say that.

Tom 27:40

Right. It would have been cool. The giant flaming eye, and the the second one didn't well but he was like walking in the eye. Yes, he was a pull of his eye. Yeah.

Joe 27:50

Yeah. Now, do you feel that it would have been more it would have been more exciting? I don't know, exciting's probably I don't want to call anything exciting about these movies, but more titillating. More titillating if they didn't make it so obvious and say that that was Sauron. Uh especially.

Jen 28:10

I actually hate the eye. I think that is my least favorite part of the movie, of the Lord of the Rings movies. When the eye like looks around in like a panic, like it doesn't have to literally be an eye. I don't like that decision. So the fact that they brought the eye back here, I hate. But I think there were ways for us to have known it was Sauron without it being so obvious.

Joe 28:33

Yeah, and I guess the other ear.

Jen 28:36

I just hate it.

Joe 28:37

No, it was his nose. Um was it was it bulbous? Just the nostrils of Sauron?

Tom 28:43

It's a broad yet pointed nose.

Joe 28:46

Um And then the second part of that question, I have a second part of that, was do you think they didn't do that because this is a hundred-year-old story that everyone already knows that that's him? That's why they said no. I I don't know. My thoughts will be like, don't make it so obvious, because people have seen the Lord of the Rings movies, they don't really know The Hobbit, maybe. There's probably plenty of people who've never read The Hobbit who saw the Lord of the Rings movies and like them.

Tom 29:12

Oh yeah.

Joe 29:13

Like if we go back, do the Hobbit and put this character in there and this whole storyline without saying strictly that it's Sauron or not showing these ridiculous, clear, like the eye and things like that, um, and those flashes of you know, the the silhouette that we see in the I think the beginning of the fellowship. Um I think that would have been a little more exciting because the people who don't know the Hobbit would have been like when somebody said that's Sauron, they would have been like, oh. Or or whoa, no way. Or yes, exactly.

Jen 29:49

Um Yeah, I just hated every minute of it.

Joe 29:52

But it was clear it was Sauron from the beginning, I think.

Jen 29:55

I mean, yeah. Uh well he brought the first thing he did was raise the Nazgul.

Tom 30:03

Yeah.

Jen 30:03

So and how come the Nazgul were like ghosts? They didn't have time to like form a body or I don't think they had bodies yet.

Joe 30:10

Yeah, I think they need maybe to like either co corporealize or But he raised when he raised the witch king.

unknown 30:18

Yes.

Jen 30:19

Was that just his spirit, not his body he didn't like raise his body from the tomb? The tomb was like destroy like disturbed. Wasn't that what they were saying? I don't know.

Joe 30:32

So why would the tomb need to be disturbed if his body Well, I mean, in this world, it's everything all the magic is very, very soft. There's no real explanations. It's not like like the wheel of time or like Mistborn or something or the king killers.

Jen 30:50

Yeah. Please stop fighting. Cast the spell.

Tom 30:53

Gandalf does a lot of magic in the in the second one.

Jen 30:56

It's a lot of like light.

Tom 30:58

That's as much as magic.

Jen 30:59

I don't know. No, but I always want to be like, do magic missile.

Joe 31:02

He tried to the first level spell. He had Radagast's janky staff.

Jen 31:07

Is that what he had?

Joe 31:08

Yes. He was trying and he couldn't get it to work right.

Jen 31:12

Oh my god.

Joe 31:13

Uh Radagast, uh every time I see him, I just want to punch him in the face with that goddamn bird shit in his hair.

Jen 31:20

Take a shower, Radagast.

unknown 31:22

Your hands.

Joe 31:24

I'm gonna say every episode I had to say it. I'm sorry, everybody.

Jen 31:27

Well he came with Oh, he brought the Eagles.

Joe 31:29

They gave him the Eagle uh Yes, he brought the Eagles. Um the Eagle job. Yeah. It wasn't Glenn Fry. Take it easy that came from right writing in on Take It Easy. Um that Dwarven wall that they build up in front of the uh that was that was pretty disappointing for a dwarven wall. I would think, you know, they would have been able to build something a little bit more than a little bit.

Jen 31:59

Oh that's kind of how I pictured it.

Joe 32:02

But I did like rubble. Did you like the hole that they left so that so that Thor Bard could have the conversation? And then it's like this big on the screen.

Jen 32:12

No, I didn't like that.

Joe 32:14

My favorite part of that is when Thoron just kind of sidles to the side. Like it was almost like he was trying to do like a comedy bit where he was like, he's I can't remember what the line is. He says to Bard, and then he just kind of goes like this shh and like out of frame. Out of frame. I don't know. No. Oh, it was great. I loved it. I was like, this is this is amazing. And then and then I'm just gonna be like, what's his name? Chris Farley. Yeah. You remember, you remember when that happened? Remember when so Thrandril uh, you know, this is around the time that they the elves show up and Thrandrill shows up. And um, I don't even remember what he was talking about. Is it no? Because Legolis and Toriel aren't back yet. Who?

Jen 33:05

Wow, that was like you're you're reaching back when you read the books, Legolas.

Joe 33:09

Yeah, that was how I that's what I said back when I read the books, Legolas. Legolus and Toriel aren't back yet. So Thrandrill shows up. I don't remember who he's talking with, but he does say such a pity, which was giving me really, really big David Bowie and Labyrinth vibes.

Jen 33:31

And I kind of feel like fabulous for this movie.

Joe 33:34

I kind of feel like he was going for David Bowie and Labyrinth Lee Pace.

Tom 33:39

But yeah, maybe.

Joe 33:41

I think so. I liked him. I liked Randwill. I don't know. He's a jerk and whatever, and he's annoying, but I think that's kind of how Frandwell's supposed to be.

Tom 33:50

Yeah, I think, you know, I think it was he has a character down.

Jen 33:55

He had a redeeming line at the end, one or two redeeming lines. Character growth.

Joe 34:01

Yeah, yeah, that's true. Okay, yeah. Uh it was at this point that I put in my notes I might be getting into this movie. Um so I was intrigued. Yeah. Question: The mithril vest that they give to Bilbo, do you think that was the same exact prop? Do you think they had they found how to get the old prop or found the old prop? It looked different to me, but I was wondering.

Jen 34:23

I don't know. Probably not.

Tom 34:25

Yeah, I'm gonna say no, it's not the same prop.

Jen 34:27

Oh well that's probably a shittier prop than what they originally had.

Tom 34:31

I doubt that Mart I mean, I have no idea, but I I I I think the odds are are in my favor in saying this. I doubt that Martin Freeman and uh Elijah would wear the same size.

Joe 34:44

But it's not supposed to fit them.

Tom 34:45

It's not supposed to fit them, though. No, but it's supposed to fit them like well it fits them. My point is it's supposed to I guess I guess you can go with that.

Joe 34:53

It's supposed to be in the book, it's described it's oversized for them. Right because it's made for a dwarf. Um it looks oversized in this. Yeah, it's almost like a a nightgown or a shift.

Tom 35:05

Um just gives you thigh protection too, man.

Joe 35:08

Yeah. Uh okay, uh there's a weird part. I do have an issue with one part. Well, not just one part, but when Legolus I almost said Legolus again. When Legolus and Toriel they go to Gundabad, um, and they're there, right? They show up during the daytime and they're like, and I think Legolas says, like, let's wait for night before we go in. And I immediately thought, but that's when the orcs are active. It's not like people, you wait, you go in during the day, not the night. And and clearly I was right because as soon as the nighttime came, they all started coming out of the out of the fortress.

Tom 35:48

That's like, I need to find someone who can actually lead me.

Joe 35:51

Yeah. I don't know. That was weird. I am I am bad at decision making. You know, we gave, you know, we find out Leg Legolus's mother died there. So we gotta get it, we gotta give every character a really big emotional story. Although they didn't really dwell on it that much. I think he just mentions it, right? And then they never really come back to it.

Jen 36:09

I guess it's his dad says something about it at the end.

Joe 36:12

Yeah. But it's so weird that they bring this up now. It's like they were trying to give Legolis like a a little story arc or some sort of character growth or trauma, but like they wait till the third movie and then it's just like two lines.

Jen 36:28

Yeah, it's almost like he shouldn't have been in this movie at all.

Joe 36:31

But Jen, we we wouldn't have had all the uh ridiculously absurd things that he does in this movie. Like uh hang upside down from a bat and just start killing everything.

Jen 36:46

So first he was hanging right side up, and then they cut away, and then the bat had him by the feet. So I don't really know how that happened.

Joe 36:53

Oh no, he the you must have missed the shot where he yeah, he flips upside down.

Jen 36:58

Okay.

Joe 36:59

And the bat just, I guess, continues to hold him because it wants to hold him. Can we can we just talk about bats though? Like there was a bat army.

Jen 37:08

They're huge, they're like the size of people.

Joe 37:10

Why is there a bat army?

Jen 37:12

Why not? Why were there were worms?

Joe 37:14

Yeah, why is there an eagle army? I think there are bats in the book, if I remember correctly.

Jen 37:18

These bats were bred for a specific reason, Joe.

Joe 37:21

Oh, that's right. War bats.

Jen 37:26

Yeah. Um, my favorite Legolas moment, I'm being sarcastic, is when he's jumping from like rock to rock as the floor is collapsing under him.

Joe 37:40

Oh yeah.

Jen 37:41

To try to not fall. It slows.

Joe 37:44

Because when it falls, it's it it slowly falls and builds up speed. Yeah, if you don't put a lot of weight on it, it's okay.

Jen 37:53

You know, like that.

Joe 37:56

He's Legolas, Jen.

Jen 37:58

But now I don't like Legolas. That's what happened. I don't like him anymore.

Joe 38:03

Yeah.

Jen 38:03

He's awful.

Joe 38:04

Now you have to live with that. Thanks.

Tom 38:07

Just think about it, like it takes it takes the love of Gimli to turn Legolas into a Yeah, it is.

Jen 38:12

It does take the love of Gimli.

Joe 38:15

You're right. Well he does, I guess at the very end, Legolas is like right, he goes to help um Philly, Killy.

Jen 38:25

It's because Toriel is his friend.

Joe 38:27

Or is it Thorin? I'm sorry, is it Thorian Thorin that he goes to? But I mean at the end then, when the fight's happening, he does help Thorin out. So he does he's starting maybe he's starting to uh soften up a little bit on the dwarves.

Jen 38:40

Maybe.

Joe 38:40

I think so. I think there's some growth there.

Jen 38:43

A little bit. But I hate like what happens to Toriel? You never just never see her again. I thought she, after Keely died, I was like, oh, she's gonna sacrifice herself. She's gonna pull the orc off the mountain and they're both gonna die. But no, she's alive. She just never never see or her hear from her again.

Joe 39:03

And uh She's in the Grey Havens now. Don't worry about it. Well, she's she's in Merkwood. She stays in Merkwood.

Jen 39:09

I know, but it's terrible. Why didn't she just die heroically?

Tom 39:13

What? It's terrible. It would have been great if Doriel died here.

Jen 39:17

No, I mean she does she's not in Lord of the Rings. Her her the man she loved, dwarf she loved, just died. And it was really kind of upsetting. So she should just she should have died heroically. She should have. And then we would have been like, okay, this is why Legolas doesn't care. You know, this girl's dead, so Legolas can be on his own for the fellowship. And um nobody has to be sad because everybody's dead.

Joe 39:44

Would you say, Jen, that you kind of like Toriel dying here?

Jen 39:48

That's what I just yeah, I kind of like Toriel dying here. Um No, it doesn't make he's and then that was like one of uh Thranduil's redemption lines where he's like, She's like, why does it hurt so much? He's like, Because it was because it was real.

Joe 40:02

Yeah.

Jen 40:02

And that's it.

Joe 40:03

A minute ago he was like, it's not real. It's not real. Now it's real.

Jen 40:06

For a second, I was like, are they gonna get together? Like, what's happening right now?

Joe 40:11

She's gonna become like a like Alyssa's stepdad, a stepmom, and then he's and then he's in love with her. So we're gonna get some elf stepmom, stepdaughter of stepdaughter porn.

Jen 40:21

If that was what they were supposed to do, they were fighting tooth and nail against it because there's absolutely nothing in Orlando Bloom's performance that's that's like he's saying the lines, like But I don't believe him. If you hurt her, I'll I will whatever, I'll hurt you. But I'm like, you're not there's no emotion behind this at all. I know you're a better actor than this. Like it's just awesome.

Joe 40:44

Is he though, Jen? Is he?

Jen 40:45

Yeah, I've seen him, I've seen him, I've seen him do better.

Joe 40:49

I agree.

Jen 40:50

There's nothing coming out. He was like, Well, if you're gonna make me say these lines, I'll say them, but I'm not gonna like it. And that's exactly what they did. They were like, All right, whatever, who cares? Print, we're done.

Joe 40:59

Yeah.

Jen 41:00

Like there's and then like they just separate from each other, and there's no they don't even say goodbye. He just leaves. That's what I mean. And is there any of this in the extended cut where there's like a goodbye between them?

Tom 41:11

Jim is not watching an extended cut.

Jen 41:13

Not watching it.

Joe 41:14

No. Um this is the only move, one of the three movies that I would watch again. And I wouldn't like, I'm not turn and I mean I'm not turning it on, being like, I want to watch this movie now. Like if it was on and I was flipping through channels and it was like in the middle of the battle, I would you know stick around and watch a bit of it. Um okay. So I want to talk about Bilbo because you remember this is this is a story about Bilbo, by the way. Yeah, who's Bilbo?

Tom 41:41

I don't know if we've talked about him.

Joe 41:43

You mentioned him, but you mentioned about future flash forward Bilbo.

Tom 41:47

Um shirt fit him. I think that's what we talked about.

Joe 41:50

Yeah, we talked about the shirt fitting him. Um I'm so frustrated of the lack of not just the lack of Bilbo, but the lack of Bilbo using the ring when he uses the ring in the box.

Jen 42:02

He doesn't use it at all in this movie?

Joe 42:04

Uh yes. Maybe one time. Once. Once. He uses it too.

Jen 42:08

Oh, when he's going to get to Raven.

Joe 42:10

Dale, yeah, in Dale. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's it. He doesn't use it when he sneaks out of the, you know, climbs over the wall and sneaks out of the mountain. And he doesn't use it when he gets knocked unconscious.

Jen 42:22

He really doesn't have to use it because he walks right into the middle of the camp and finds exactly what he's looking for and nobody stops him. So it's not a very well-fortified, very well uh guarded camp. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

Joe 42:33

Well, I don't think it's the it's for the camp. I always thought he put it on so the dwarves wouldn't see him leave.

Jen 42:38

Right. But then like, I'm just saying they in the book, don't they like he has the ring on and then until the guards find him, he takes the ring off, and then they bring him in to Bard. But they just like turn around and he's standing there.

Joe 42:52

Yeah, I don't know if they had they maybe there's more ring ring usage in the in the extended edition. We're just gonna keep saying that. That's the terror. I don't know if the ring the ring budget wasn't enough.

Jen 43:03

Um, I'm still a white and black budget.

Tom 43:07

Bill can use the ring as much as he should use the ring in the Hobbit because nobody knows that the ring is evil. Right? Now he was using the ring all like all that, like people would be like, oh you know.

Joe 43:21

You think it was for viewers of the Lord of the Rings' benefit? They didn't want to anger some of those people.

Tom 43:26

Not anger them. I think it would be like nothing hap Bilbo doesn't turn bad. So like having him use the super powerful magic evil ring all the time, the audience may be like, Well, when is he gonna turn bad? And he never does. And so like it I I think like limiting the use well is the decision they decided to make.

Joe 43:45

It takes gol it takes a long time for Gollum to turn into Gollum. It doesn't happen over the course of a year. I know. Or Smain.

Jen 43:54

Yeah, but Frodo, it takes Frodo like a year. It does take Frodo like a year to turn into that.

Joe 44:00

But Frodo's okay all right. This is a great question or a great point, Jen. Um Frodo, it does kind of weigh on Frodo quicker, but I think that's because of his proximity to Mordor and Sauron adds to that.

Tom 44:16

And Sauron's becoming more powerful, making the ring more powerful.

Joe 44:20

Exactly, exactly.

Jen 44:21

Okay. All right.

Tom 44:22

Yeah. And like Frodo ends up using it a lot, you know.

Jen 44:27

I mean I mean Bilbo definitely has like in the beginning of the fellowship, he's definitely like not wanting to let it go.

Tom 44:35

Yeah.

Jen 44:36

And then in the middle of fellowship and riven down when he does that thing where he's like, ah that's crazy.

Joe 44:43

He does his golem uh Yeah, right.

Jen 44:46

So I guess it it is in there for him, but not right now.

Joe 44:50

But I always got the impression that Bilbo didn't use the ring that much after the adventure.

Tom 44:54

I think he hasn't used it. I think he uses it on his birthday. It's the first time he uses it after he comes off.

Jen 44:59

Yeah, he just has it all the time, but isn't using it.

Joe 45:03

Yeah. Because I think he only uses it when he feels he needs to use it. Even in the in the book, he's he's only using it when he's like I have it's like basically his only choice.

Jen 45:12

Yeah.

Joe 45:13

Right. Um, and again, that's partially is because in the Hobbit, when it was written, there was no, you know, it wasn't the ring of power.

Tom 45:22

It was just a magic ring. Yeah.

Joe 45:24

Yeah. I'm still a little upset that we haven't gotten it. We didn't get any birds talking. They couldn't make a goddamn bird talk in this movie.

Tom 45:31

Yeah, why did spiders talk? I don't understand.

Joe 45:33

The spiders talked, we didn't get the eagles talking, we didn't get the thrush. Yeah, no thrush. We saw a thrush in the second movie, but it didn't that was it.

Jen 45:41

It didn't it didn't tell Bard about the very like old thrush that came and was like, hello, I've been here. Crack years. Yeah, your name. Yeah, my oh, my grandfather was here when your grandfather was here. I think his name was Crack or Crack. Yeah, cray, yeah.

Tom 45:58

Crake, Crake. Yeah. I think um Yeah, I knew I knew when when Bill because Bilbo should have already talked to the thrush in in the second one. And he did it. So I knew that there would be no talking.

Joe 46:09

Well, they made it like everybody knew that there was a uh a scale missing on Smaug. Um so I guess I guess because they thought it would be too ridiculous to have a bird talk.

Jen 46:20

Yep, sure.

Joe 46:21

That would have been too much.

Jen 46:23

That's going too far.

Joe 46:24

That would have been 12. If they wanted to stay in 11, bird talking would have been 12. Uh giant, giant elk, steed, 11, pig, pig riding, 11. I thought of another bird talking 12.

Jen 46:41

I thought another thing Legolus did that I thought was crazy. So when he stabs the troll in the head, and then is he controlling the way he runs because this the the knife is like in his brain? And then because the troll like runs forward and knocks over the tower, and then Legolus can like cross over to the other side. Oh, oh, yeah. But it almost looks like Legolas goes like this with the knife and the thing like runs forward. Like he's controlling it in his brain.

Joe 47:09

He turns it, he puts it into drive.

Jen 47:11

Yeah.

Joe 47:12

Which is so weird. I didn't I didn't pick up on that.

Jen 47:15

I don't know. I just thought it was the troll falling down, but yeah, it it's No, he runs full speed into the tower and then falls, obviously.

Joe 47:23

But I don't know how how those troll brain works.

Jen 47:26

There's a lot of trolls in this movie.

Joe 47:28

Yes. Well, they have to make the big, big monsters because they can just there's all kinds of monsters in this, right? It couldn't just be orcs and the wargs. Um, there's trolls. We saw we we did see wargs, because remember when Balin's head when they're headed on the sled to up to Raven Hill and the Worgs are coming.

Tom 47:49

The wargs are chasing after them.

Joe 47:51

All right. Um yeah, there are wargs. You don't you don't see a lot of them. And I think some of the goblins are orcs are riding wargs too.

Jen 48:01

Okay, I didn't notice.

Joe 48:03

They really ratchet up to the the size of the armies. Um, I don't think they ever really specifically say in the books the size of all the armies, but I got the impression that it was more like hundreds in each army than than millions. There shouldn't be that many people around, yeah. So I I and it's all CGI. Come on, it looks like they like the elf armies, it just looks like they copy and pasted like every elf.

Jen 48:30

The same guy, yeah.

Joe 48:32

Yes, it just looks like they got they should have got like Deep Roy to play the one elf and then just copy and pasted like Oompa Loompa's.

Jen 48:40

Uh we're gonna talk about uh Alfred.

Joe 48:43

Do do we uh do we have to dollar store Gream of Worped Store Green of Worp, Unibrow guy? Abandon the cripples. You could just he didn't need to be in the movie at all. You should just get rid of that character.

Jen 48:56

No, he was and he just disappears. He just leaves. Nothing happens to him. He never gets a comuppance.

Joe 49:02

No, he gets launched into the fucking troll's mouth. Yeah, yeah. You missed when he gets he catapults into the troll's mouth. No. Yeah, yes, me and Dan at the end. We're like, oh, that guy never gonna win. He's hiding in the catapult bag, and then like there's like somebody's fighting a troll. No, there's no fighting a troll. The troll's over there. Yeah, yeah, somebody is fighting the troll. And then I think it kills whoever it's fighting, and he drops like he has a stack of coins, and one of the coins falls onto the trigger, and there's that whole slow motion thing where it's like up on its side and then it falls over on its side. It triggers it off. He gets launched into the troll's mouth. The troll, the troll chokes on him and he dies. 11. Yeah.

Tom 49:50

Wait, it's an 11. Absolutely.

Jen 49:52

Both of us missed it. When but part of the movie?

Tom 49:55

I don't know. It's the time to learn the battle. Yes.

Jen 49:58

I never, neither one of the two of us saw that.

Joe 50:01

You were I think it was the hour two of the battle.

Jen 50:04

I was looking for the wereworms, Tom.

Joe 50:06

It was towards the it was closer towards the end of the battle, I think. Like before before we really get over to like Raven Hill, and it's a lot of I think it's before then or or right around that time. I don't remember, Jen. There's so much shit going on in this movie. Did I mention that?

Jen 50:23

Yeah, I fully missed this. Okay, well, good, then he's dead.

Joe 50:27

I mean, there right, we talked about dwarf riding pig. Uh uh, that's amazing. Dwarf riding pig.

Tom 50:35

That's that's on the same uh the same website that you can get the elf stepmom.

Joe 50:41

Yes. Dwarf Riding Pig. I didn't know Billy Conley was gonna be in this movie, but I heard the voice and I was like, is that Billy Conley? Yeah, that's Billy Conley.

Tom 50:51

Uh yeah, so apparently Billy Billy Conley was very ill. So like he he's not in the movie.

Joe 50:57

I I was about to say I was gonna say, I don't think that was actually because I was like, he's gotta be really old too. Like that he can't be doing all of this. And all of the stuff that Dane does is all action stunt type thing. So I thought maybe they CGI Billy Conley's face onto that, like a dwarf version of his face on that.

Tom 51:16

Exactly what they did. It was uh yeah. He was originally gonna play the part um there live. You know, I'm I guess with some performers or whatever, but uh yeah, he was dying. So that didn't happen. No, a lot of like a lot of the actors like so Ian Holm uh and and uh Christopher Lee never left England. All of their scenes were filmed in England as they were too ill to travel. They both died like within six months of this movie coming out.

Joe 51:42

Uh that's gotta suck this being your last movie.

Tom 51:46

I I think for Christopher Lee, he's fine with it. Like he loves this stuff.

Joe 51:50

That's true. He was pretty cool.

Jen 51:52

Leave Sauron to me.

Joe 51:54

Yes. It's like, hmm.

Jen 51:58

I don't think you're gonna do very well at that.

Joe 52:01

Yeah. I'll go take care of him. But I think at that point he's still like he's not bad yet. Yeah.

Tom 52:08

No, he doesn't get crazy.

Jen 52:09

Until he says that, and I'm like, oh. He's not bad yet, but he will be as soon as he talks to Sauron.

Tom 52:14

Yeah.

Jen 52:15

Sauron's just gonna be like, come here, buddy.

Joe 52:17

Yeah.

Jen 52:17

Come here. Come here. Let's just let's just tone it down a little bit and have a conversation.

Joe 52:21

Let's yeah, let's talk this out.

Jen 52:23

Yeah, come on. You don't you want this palantier. You don't you don't you don't wanna come on.

unknown 52:28

Come on.

Joe 52:29

Oh yeah, Jen, so it must be pretty soon because I have the note here, Alfred Lickspittle was annoying, but it was worth it was worth it to see him catapulted into the troll's uh cave troll's mouth.

Jen 52:40

Yeah, I I completely 100% miss that. Oh well. I guess I have to watch it again now.

Joe 52:48

Yeah. No, you don't. Uh you can probably look that up.

Jen 52:51

I know. Well, I already see a picture of it on our chat. Thank you, Danny. So that's enough.

Joe 52:55

Got it.

Jen 52:56

I got the gist of it right there. So what we have one hour and 47 minutes in. Good. I know the exact time I have to watch.

Joe 53:04

He could say uh that he died killing a cave troll, though. Sure. He can't say anything.

Tom 53:10

Yeah, yeah. Bing, bing, ping.

Joe 53:13

Yeah. Uh what else do we have going on this? Uh yeah, I have the like we talked about Legolas hanging upside down from a bat and killing hundreds of guys. Um I say hundreds of guys, hundreds of orcs is so stupid. That's one of my note. Um I was actually kind of surprised that Feely actually died. I wasn't sure. I wasn't sure, yeah. I thought they could change that and be like, oh, he lives his life with Toriel and they live happily ever after. I could see them doing that.

Tom 53:44

Um next in line, right?

Joe 53:48

Um well his old Feely is older, I think. Well, he's also dead.

Tom 53:53

Also dead.

Joe 53:54

But they're his nephews. Um Isn't what's isn't isn't Rollin his brother or cousin, or I don't know. I can't remember the relations of all of them. Um we talked about Radigus bringing the Eagles. I was a we I w I wish we would have got more Bjorn.

Jen 54:13

Yeah, I was just gonna say that was my favorite part of the whole movie. Really? Drop down and turn into a bear and just start I w I could have done more minutes of that. That was us. Yeah, I was like, that's what I said last week, though. Like I could have watched Bjorn much more. I needed more Bjorn.

Joe 54:28

Yeah, I did too. I guess there wasn't enough time for Bjorn.

Jen 54:33

Yeah, it doesn't I mean it doesn't add anything to the story, it's just cool.

unknown 54:37

Yeah.

Joe 54:37

It would have been I mean, a lot of the stuff that happens in this movie doesn't add to the story.

Jen 54:41

So that's true. That's true.

Joe 54:43

I you know, why not just put some more Bayorn like Bayorn version?

Jen 54:46

Bjorn versus Bayorn. Yeah, Bjorn is the singer.

Joe 54:50

Um Holger's what story? That's great.

Jen 54:53

Um a Bayorn against the two wereworms would have been great.

Joe 54:58

Oh, yeah, there we go. Yeah. That would have been really cool. I would have been a bit more than a lot of things.

Jen 55:02

I need you guys to go back and look at the wereworms because I'm not crazy.

Joe 55:06

I'm not gonna go back. You're gonna have to like find it and tell me like I guess so. Either post a clip of it or tell me at what timestamp, and then maybe one day I'll go and watch it.

Jen 55:16

Someday uh whatever.

Joe 55:20

What else do we have? There's there's so much in this it's all uh it's all just fighting, I guess. So there's two hours of fighting.

Jen 55:28

The uh Azog coming back to life under the ice.

Joe 55:32

That was stupid.

Jen 55:33

Um I thought he was gonna be like undead when he came out.

Joe 55:36

I couldn't figure out what they were doing.

Jen 55:39

I don't know. And then and then and then Thorne did like sheathing the sword to get the final kill in. Is that what that is?

Tom 55:47

Oh, yeah, I guess kinda.

Joe 55:49

Oh yeah, yeah, I guess so. He had to free his sword up to um to take it. Well, yeah. I I wasn't you know, we knew he was gonna die. I even even not knowing Thorne was gonna die, I knew he was gonna die fighting Azog, and Azog was gonna die as well. I wasn't surprised about that. I guess it was it just went on for a long time, I guess.

Jen 56:13

Yeah, it did.

Joe 56:16

Uh what else do we have in this movie? There is nothing else. This is the entire movie. Bilbo going back to uh I I thought Martin Freeman did a really good job, though, in this one with his stuff, even though he was barely in it.

Jen 56:29

I need you guys to stop and look at the wereworm video that Danny posted.

Joe 56:33

Oh, Danny. Danny posted the werewomb.

Jen 56:35

That's it. Like what the clip that he has here that's it's 14 seconds, and that's the entirety of the wereworms.

Joe 56:44

I must have oh wow, I didn't see this. I must have been going to the bathroom.

Jen 56:48

You went to the bathroom?

Joe 56:50

Yeah, I wasn't pausing this movie. Jen, I was not pausing this movie.

Jen 56:55

They don't do anything. That's it. That's it. They don't do anything. They just bust out and then they go back into the ground.

Joe 57:00

They're like engineers. They're just digging tunnels. They're not they're not uh violent creatures.

Jen 57:06

What tunnels? For what?

Tom 57:08

For oh, for future wherewith.

Jen 57:10

For the orcs to get there?

Tom 57:11

Yeah, there's a I like your Batman returns uh note on the wall there.

Joe 57:17

Oh. Yeah, there's a scene. I think it's before that, or I guess it would have to be after that, where the orcs come out of like tunnels like that. I don't know. I guess it would have to be after that. Because I didn't I missed that part, so then now I'm all confused. But there's a part where orcs come out of like these round tunnels, and I was like, oh, these tunnels look weird. They look like they look like giant worms made up. So the worms.

Jen 57:42

So the worms are are gentle. They've just been hired to dig tunnels. They don't want to take part in the war. That makes more sense to me. They're not monsters. They just asked them to dig tunnels, and they did. And they're, you know, they're Switzerland, so they leave. They're just gonna let this fight play out as it as it will.

Joe 58:00

Yeah, they're independent contractors.

Jen 58:02

Okay. You know what? Thank you, because I that's fine. Because otherwise, I was like, you have these huge worm monsters, you're not gonna use them?

Joe 58:10

I don't think they can use them. I think they're untamable.

Jen 58:13

Well, they paid them to dig tunnels, so they're not gonna be able to do that.

Joe 58:16

Well, I don't know if there was an exchange. I'm not sure.

Jen 58:20

They just really like digging tunnels?

Joe 58:22

I don't know. Maybe there's a way to to get them to dig tunnels in the way you want them to. I mean, there's guys riding cave trolls, kind of directing them. I don't know how how are they directing them? They're they're not doing it.

Jen 58:34

They're not worms. They're were worms. So maybe some part of them can still think and is human.

Joe 58:41

Maybe they're paid while when they're human. And then they turn into worms. And then they turn into worms. And then they go giant worms.

Jen 58:49

They just leave. Like they just they just go back and then they just like turn back into humans and go back about their business.

Joe 58:57

Yeah. I guess so.

Jen 58:59

All right, I get it. I get it. All right, this is making more sense to me now.

Joe 59:03

Do you get it?

Jen 59:04

Yeah. They only turn into werewolves when there's like war happening. When the war is over, they turn back into humans. Like the war is the moon to them. All right, I've gone too far. I've gone too far.

Tom 59:16

I like skeeters. Listen, the union contract for werewolves only covers tunnels.

Joe 59:23

Are they were they union werewolves? I'm sure there is.

Tom 59:27

You're not getting that work on the weekend, otherwise. Yeah.

Jen 59:32

Somebody puts up a blow-up rat.

Joe 59:34

So, fun fact about this.

Tom 59:37

Are there fun facts about this?

Joe 59:39

Yeah, that's a fun fact. We talked a bit about we we talked facts about this. We talked about the gold. Um, apparently, production used so much gold paint for the treasure hordes that they exhausted the supply of gold paint in all of New Zealand.

Jen 59:56

Wow. That's what they went practical with? The whole movie CGI. Okay.

Joe 1:00:07

Yeah. It's a lot of gold paint they used.

Jen 1:00:09

Sure, okay.

Joe 1:00:11

Yeah. Um, that's interesting, Jen. Why not CGI? I'm sure some of the gold is CGI, because in the in the second movie, there's a lot of like sliding around and running around on it.

Tom 1:00:23

Yeah.

Joe 1:00:24

There's a lot of interaction with the gold.

Tom 1:00:26

Right? Like the gold the liquid gold statue.

Joe 1:00:29

Oh, yeah, that's right. Yeah. Maybe this the gold paint was from the Thorin acid trip scene where he's kind of like swimming in the gold. The liquid gold.

Tom 1:00:39

That's the liquid gold from the statue. And he's in.

Joe 1:00:41

No, no. No, I know when I'm talking about in real life.

Tom 1:00:44

Oh, yeah.

Joe 1:00:45

Maybe that's gold paint.

Tom 1:00:46

Wait, what? What's real life?

Joe 1:00:50

No, what's that about? Um, the end of the movie, we get you know, the trip back, which is much quicker than it is in the books. I feel like in the book there's a little bit more going on.

Jen 1:01:01

He stops at a bunch of places.

Tom 1:01:03

Yeah, he does reviews, yeah.

Joe 1:01:05

Does he go he goes back to Merkwood with the elves, right?

Jen 1:01:09

I don't think so. He goes to Bjorn's house for a while.

Joe 1:01:12

Oh, that's right. Yeah, yeah.

Jen 1:01:13

And then he goes to Rivendell.

Tom 1:01:14

He goes to Rivendell. Yes. And he sees, doesn't he see the the trolls that he maybe he passes by that?

Joe 1:01:20

Yeah, they stop, yeah, they stop.

Tom 1:01:24

It's nearly there and back again. Yeah, it's the same way.

Joe 1:01:27

Yeah. And then we get the scene with Gandalf and him at the border of the Shire. Oh sorry, take a step back. After Thorne dies, when the when the two of them are sitting on the on the ledge and Gandalf takes out his pipe.

Tom 1:01:42

Yeah.

Joe 1:01:42

Like like Frodo, uh, Frodo, here we go again. Uh Bilbo's kind of like almost more in mourning, you know, he's still sad about Thorin dying, and and Gandalf's just making a lot of noise, trying to clean out his pipe and get it lit. And and Bilbo's just like looking at him like, dude, I'm I'm having a moment here.

Jen 1:02:03

Yeah. Why couldn't he light his pipe? Why was he having so much trouble with it?

Joe 1:02:07

Well, he was cleaning it out, I think. It seemed like it might have been clogged, and he was trying to unclog it.

Jen 1:02:12

Okay.

Tom 1:02:14

Apparently that's the last scene it became a film. Okay. Was that scene? And it was originally there was dialogue like that was supposed to happen. And uh they were so overcome with with the the the the fact that it was his last scene as Gandalf. And they just said, like, just don't call the line to just be Gandalf. That's what that's like.

Joe 1:02:33

I thought that was very Gandalf like of him too too.

Tom 1:02:35

It was. It was. But like that's that's you know, I I I'm only telling that story because it stood out to you as an interesting moment, and it was kind of crafted in in in like on set as they were filming it.

Joe 1:02:46

Yeah, it was like a very serious, solemn moment, and then they kind of made it into a bit of a bit whimsical. Um but it's not the last time we see Gandalf in the movie.

Tom 1:02:56

No.

Joe 1:02:56

No.

Jen 1:02:57

Can can we before we go back before we go back, I just want to um bring up the part where Thranduil sends Legolas to go find Aragorn.

Joe 1:03:06

Okay.

Jen 1:03:07

But but he's like, his father was Arathorn. What's his name? He goes by Strider. You'll have to figure his name out yourself. You'll be like, but it's really close to his dad's name. So you're probably gonna get it when you hear it. Like, why can't he tell him what his name is?

Joe 1:03:23

I don't I don't know why you can't tell him what his name is.

Jen 1:03:26

Like for uh like people are not gonna know who that is.

Joe 1:03:29

I thought Well, they said Strider, so you know. I mean He's called Strider in in the in the Fellowship of the Ring. I don't know. It was kind of corny. Yeah I'm trying to remember? I don't know if he does. No, because he meets him at Rivendell.

Jen 1:03:49

No, but he knows who he is. This is Aragorn, son of Arathorn.

Joe 1:03:52

Well, if if I remember correctly, what happens is that he knows Legolas.

Jen 1:03:58

He calls him by name.

Joe 1:03:59

Yeah, because Aragorn they're hunting Gollum through Mirkwood and they run into the wood elves. And I think that they do meet um in Mirkwood when, you know, while hunting Gollum. If I remember correctly, I think that's find out soon.

Jen 1:04:14

If Orlando Bloom is playing Legolas in this movie, he's gonna have like a cane.

Joe 1:04:19

Uh well, yeah, that's right, because um it's obviously Vigo Mortensen's not playing Aragorn in this movie, but yeah, I don't I don't think so. I wonder if it's if it's like uh Orlando Bloom contract where when when he first did the movies, at any time Peter Jackson makes a Lord of the Rings movie, he has to be Legolas.

Jen 1:04:38

I mean, if he was Legolas in the Hobbit and he was Legolas in Lord of the Rings, he should be Legolas in this movie. It's in between those two movies. He can't be young Legolas in Hunt for Golem and old Legolas in the Hobbit.

Tom 1:04:49

He he filmed The Hobbit almost 30 years ago.

Jen 1:04:53

What? And now he's gonna be almost 50 when they do Hunt for Golem, if he's not 50 already.

Tom 1:05:02

Yeah.

Jen 1:05:03

But what are they gonna do now? He's you can't cast a young Legolas.

Tom 1:05:07

I don't actually know because I was I was I was watching an interview with Elijah Wood a couple of days ago. He's gonna be Frodo, and Frodo's gonna be in the Hunt for Gollum.

Joe 1:05:15

Right. Yeah, but Elijah Wood still looks like he's in his 20s. Yeah.

Jen 1:05:19

I don't know about that.

Tom 1:05:19

In that interview, he did talk about like that that like the de-aging technology was on the table for for for like to make some of this realistic.

Joe 1:05:27

But wait, what is Frodo gonna do in the Hunt for Gollum?

Tom 1:05:30

I think it's gonna be a similar thing where there's gonna be a uh a framing structure to those films.

Jen 1:05:35

Yeah, he doesn't know any of flashback, flash forwards, like in this.

Joe 1:05:39

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

Jen 1:05:41

Flash forwards like well, it's Gollum telling Frodo and Sam the story of the hunt for Gollum while they're like traveling together.

Joe 1:05:48

Well, uh yeah, if he's gonna be playing him, it would have to he'd have to be like a little kid, Frodo.

Tom 1:05:55

Yeah, so I know I think it's gonna be more along the lines of like uh set in in a head. It would be like Frodo like on the boat going like before we get the great hobbits tell me.

Jen 1:06:05

Wait, but does the does the Hunt for Gollum take place between when Gandalf leaves and comes back in fellowship?

Tom 1:06:14

No. Hunt for the Gollum takes place in the books, takes place between the Hobbit and the Lord of the He he escaped.

Joe 1:06:21

Gollum escapes at that point, right? I think Gollum's escaped in that in that interim you're talking about when like the ten years or whatever it is from when Gandalf first shows up and then he comes back. I think around that time or he finds out that Gollum's escaped.

Jen 1:06:38

From from Sauron?

Joe 1:06:41

No, from yeah, from Sauron, yeah.

Jen 1:06:44

Because he tells you see him being tortured.

Joe 1:06:46

Yes.

Jen 1:06:47

Like before and that's after Gandalf comes back. He's telling Frodo that he gave he said that the ring was in the Shire.

Joe 1:06:55

Well, now I don't remember. Did Sauron le let him go? I don't remember. I don't know. I don't remember now. Because I thought he I thought he was captured by Aragorn and the Rangers, and then he escapes them. I have to go back to him.

Tom 1:07:11

It means saying uh Gollum leaves to find the ring after the Hobbit and uh border orcs capture and torture him.

Joe 1:07:17

Okay, so the so the Rangers never captured him. I thought they did, but why?

Jen 1:07:23

Why are they hunting Gollum?

Tom 1:07:24

Did he say uh he escapes Rivendell?

Joe 1:07:27

Uh not Rivendell. I thought he was captured in Merkwood.

Tom 1:07:30

Yeah, it's captured in Merkwood. Legolus goes to Rivendell to say we lost Gollum. Yes. That's why he's there.

Jen 1:07:38

Why are they looking for Gollum before Gandalf realizes that it's the one ring?

Joe 1:07:46

I think that I don't think they're hunting Gollum the Rangers because of the ring.

Jen 1:07:50

Okay.

Joe 1:07:51

I don't remember. I I don't I have to look this up and re-reread the whole timeline because it's it's all based on like uh unfinished writings of Tolkien that was put together into you know one of the I think it's the Unfinished Tales book. They they have that that part, but it's not like anything that was ever finished.

Jen 1:08:10

But we can't fame.

Joe 1:08:16

Well, there's the book of Lost Tales as well, which I think is two, there's two books of Lost Tales. But um yeah, the ending, right? So we go back to the Shire, and doesn't Gandalf know that Bilbo has the ring? Doesn't he tell every oh was I can't remember now because Gandalf comes and goes so many times. He tells the dwarves about the ring. I thought Gandalf knew about the ring too.

Jen 1:08:40

He does, but he didn't doesn't know what ring it is.

Joe 1:08:44

In this it makes it almost seem like Bilbo never told him that Gandalf that um never told Gandalf.

Jen 1:08:50

They they speak about the ring in the movie. And Bill says, I dropped it during the fighting. I don't have it anymore.

Joe 1:08:58

Oh, that's right. He does.

Jen 1:08:59

And I don't know if he believes him or not, but Gandalf's like, I know you have a ragic ring. Like I I know you have that, so I've been keeping an eye on you. But I th I don't dropped it.

Joe 1:09:09

But I thought in the book he tells he tells Gandalf. Was Gandalf there when he tells everyone he has the ring? Because he does say I have the screen. Yeah, I can't remember exactly.

unknown 1:09:18

Yeah.

Joe 1:09:18

In this they make it like he never told Gandalf, and Gandalf just kind of figured it out on his own. Yeah. Okay.

Jen 1:09:24

Um I don't think we s oh, except for the one time. Do we see him even put it on in that one scene? Or does he just have it on?

Joe 1:09:33

Which scene?

Jen 1:09:34

Where he puts it on.

Joe 1:09:36

Did you just say, do we see him put it on?

Jen 1:09:38

No, do we see him put it on, or is he just like in that?

Joe 1:09:41

No, he puts it on. He puts it on. Did you see him put it on? Okay. Yeah. Oh, that's right. Because he, yeah, that uh duh. There's that whole scene where he says, I'll I'm gonna go to Raven Hill, and Gandalf says, You can't go, like they'll see you, and he's like, No, they won't. And it's like, oh, okay. He knows. Um, but it's weird because Bilbo lies to him at the end and says, and I mean, I don't think Gandalf believes him, but whatever.

Jen 1:10:05

No, I don't think so either.

Joe 1:10:06

But in the Fellowship of the Ring, he says, he's like, Do you still have that ring?

Jen 1:10:11

Yeah.

Joe 1:10:11

Like as almost like as if Bilbo never never lied to him about it.

Jen 1:10:15

Well, they've also seen and spoken to each other since then. So I guess so. Who knows if it came up again?

Joe 1:10:22

Yeah. A little weird. Um we get the end too with this, you know, them auction auctioning off all of his stuff, which was kind of fun, and um uh him getting back home, but and he has to buy, if I remember correctly, he has to buy all of his stuff back, right?

Jen 1:10:37

Yes.

Joe 1:10:39

That's gotta be frustrating. Well, he's also super wealthy now, so he is super wealthy, but still there should be some laws against that. I just shouldn't have to buy back stuff of mine that was sold illegally, I guess. I don't know.

Tom 1:10:54

Saxville, Saxville.

Jen 1:10:55

It's been 13 months, you know.

Joe 1:10:57

That's been 13 months. The the picture, right? He puts up the picture up on the wall, I guess that was down on the floor wherever it was. That looked like Winona Ryder.

Jen 1:11:07

Dave said the same thing. I was like, is that his parents? He's like, that looks like Winona Ryder.

Joe 1:11:13

They were both women, though.

Jen 1:11:14

Was that that's why I thought it was his mom and dad. I don't know.

Joe 1:11:17

Was one his dad? I thought those were both women.

Jen 1:11:19

I I didn't look too closely. I just assumed Winona Ryder baggins was his mother, and the other was his mother.

Joe 1:11:27

Well, no, no, it's that's uh uh Tuok. What's her name? No, no, she's a Tuck. His mom's a Tuck.

Jen 1:11:32

Okay.

Joe 1:11:33

I can't remember. Uh Lob no, not Lobetha. What the hell is his mom's name?

Tom 1:11:38

Oh, I don't remember.

Joe 1:11:40

I don't remember. But his mom's a Tuck. Um his dad's a baggins. The Tuck side. That's his adventurous side.

Tom 1:11:47

Okay. I think it's Lobelia.

Joe 1:11:50

Thank you, Amish. It's Lobelia tuk, I think. Yeah. I think you're right. But yeah, yeah, and the movie ends.

Jen 1:11:57

Yeah, sure does.

Joe 1:11:59

Um, anything else? I couldn't I I don't know if there's any other notes. I have a ton of notes here, but I don't think they're really worth talking about.

Jen 1:12:05

I have one when like when you see dead elves.

Joe 1:12:08

Belladonna took. Sorry.

Jen 1:12:09

Oh, Belladok.

Joe 1:12:10

Belladonna took. Lobelia's or Lebetha is somebody else in the story.

Tom 1:12:14

Yes, Lobelia is Belladonna.

Jen 1:12:16

When there's a shot of dead elves and the really dramatic sad music starts playing. It's like always much sadder when elves die than when anybody else dies.

Joe 1:12:26

I you know what, Jen? This music, the music in this movie was so unremarkable that I don't even remember any of it, to be honest with you.

Jen 1:12:34

Yeah, I know I noticed when the like the theme kicks in of the ring or whatever, but yeah.

Tom 1:12:40

Lobelia is the one selling the stuff.

Jen 1:12:42

Lobelia's Sackville Baggins.

Joe 1:12:43

Oh, she's the Sackville baggins, okay. Um, well, there you go. I almost had it right. But yes, Bella Donna Took. That's right. She's the daughter of the old Took, so he's the old Tuck's grandson, I guess.

Tom 1:12:55

Jen, you didn't say what was the thing.

Jen 1:12:58

Oh, it was um when Legolas ran out of arrows.

Tom 1:13:01

Yeah, I knew it. I knew it. Oh.

Jen 1:13:03

I was like, he never runs out of arrows through all these movies. He always has a full um, whatever they call it. Quiver of arrows. And uh he ran out of arrows.

Joe 1:13:13

He did. I was shocked. And he threw his sword.

Jen 1:13:16

Yeah. And it was perfect.

Joe 1:13:18

A sword could be an arrow.

Jen 1:13:20

Yeah. Sure can.

Joe 1:13:21

Not a not a black arrow. Oh boy. This was a movie, alright. Anyway, I feel like there should be more to talk about, but there isn't.

Jen 1:13:38

No, I think I'm done. We need enough talk, I feel like.

Joe 1:13:40

Yeah, I um it's over. It's done. Um I don't have any other exciting fun facts. Tom, you mentioned about Christopher Lee and and uh McKellen filming in London. Uh Ian Holm uh filming in uh Ian Holmes, sorry, Ian Holm filming in London. Uh he was 92, Christopher Lee.

Jen 1:14:00

Wow.

unknown 1:14:01

Yeah.

Jen 1:14:02

He did all that fighting at 92.

Joe 1:14:06

Yeah, that was all him.

Tom 1:14:08

Yeah. One time. One time.

Joe 1:14:10

All right. I guess we'll wrap it up here then and put a pin on in this in this trilogy. I'm kind of happy that it's over.

Jen 1:14:18

I'm glad we've got it out of the way early. Yeah. Now we can watch some good stuff, hopefully.

Joe 1:14:25

We'll see if it's good. Uh we have some more patrons to thank as we go through our parade of patrons. Um we actually oh, we're actually down to the last group. So this this will be our final patronage reading, uh, which means that more people have to become patrons so we can read more names out next week. So homework assignment for everybody. All right. Uh wrapping it up, we have in the Illuminators Guild Matt Eisenberg, Megan Pryor, Dan Durgen or Durgen, Molly M, Ray Richards, Patrick Lightbody, Vallis, and Sharnice. Last but not least. Those are all cool, cool people. They are very cool people. Uh, and if you want to be cool too, join our Patreon because you get to hear us say your name. You could also get early access to episodes. We also do bonus, monthly bonus episodes. Yeah, there's some merchandise you can get. So, you know, go check it out. That's all I'm saying. I want to remind everyone to follow us on social media. You can follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Blue Sky. Join us over in Discord to continue the conversation there. Also, we post in Discord what our future episodes are going to be about. So if you want to know what we're doing ahead of time, check out our Discord. Uh, rate and review us wherever you listen to podcasts. Uh, also go to our YouTube page to like and subscribe. Uh, and check out our Patreon, as I mentioned already. Links to all the aforementioned information are included in the show notes to this episode. Tom. Oh, shit. We forgot to give our ratings. I knew we were missing something. I was like, there's something we didn't do. All right. Do you want to go, Tom?

Tom 1:16:17

Stick them in early. Just stick them in in the edit.

Joe 1:16:19

No, no, let's do it now. Go ahead, Tom.

Tom 1:16:22

Um, sure. I'll go first. Um, I'll give this movie uh 1.75. 1.75 stars.

Joe 1:16:34

1.75 stars. Not not not good. So not as good as the previous movie, but better than the first movie.

Tom 1:16:41

Yeah, yeah.

Joe 1:16:42

All right. Jen, do you have yours or you want me to go?

Jen 1:16:45

No, I'm good. I'm gonna give it a two.

Joe 1:16:49

A two?

Jen 1:16:50

Also That's probably like as low as I'm gonna go for a movie that is.

Joe 1:16:57

So on par with the first on par on par with the first movie, then. You you gave the first one a two.

Jen 1:17:03

Yeah, this is pretty bad for me.

Joe 1:17:05

I'm gonna give this a 2.5.

Jen 1:17:07

Okay. All right.

Joe 1:17:08

Which is the highest I've given uh any of these movies. Um it was entertaining. And like I said, it was the closest to the book out of all of the movies, and that's just because two hours of the movie is a battle, and you know, whatever happens, it doesn't it doesn't have to happen exactly the same way because they're not gonna I I sure as hell don't remember uh pig ride uh dwarf riding pigs and also goats. But I I was I was all for it.

Tom 1:17:37

I don't think they explicitly say they didn't write pigs and goats.

Joe 1:17:41

No, they don't go into much detail of the battle. It's all it's all it's all flashback story by you know Billbo.

Tom 1:17:48

Well yeah, yeah, yeah. He goes out, yeah.

Joe 1:17:53

Um the Ark and Stone stuff was okay. I think it was a little too much of it, like we said, you know, but whatever. It didn't turn me off too much. The gold stuff was a little bit overboard, but whatever. 2.5. Uh worst movie, uh best of the three movies, but still not a great movie. So.

Tom 1:18:15

All right.

Joe 1:18:16

Final thoughts, Tom? Jen.

Tom 1:18:20

Nope, Jen, I'll have three.

Jen 1:18:22

If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.

Joe 1:18:29

That it would be. Thanks everyone for listening, and you'll hear us next time.