Jen 0:00

Dunk survives the trial, only to realize that winning is being the primary reason the realm's best hope is now a funeral centerpiece. The season wraps with a somber goodbye to Ashford and a classic Targaryen parenting fail, as Dunk decides the best way to raise a prince is to kidnap him for a road trip through the dirt. It's a quiet, heartbreaking coda that proves the real Game of Thrones isn't about the chair. It's about having enough salt beef to survive the next ditch.

Joe 0:45

So let's just get into it. This is Shelf to Screen, the podcast where we talk about adaptations of sci-fi and fantasy to the big andor small screen. I'm Joe Perry.

Jen 0:57

I'm Jen Isgro.

Tom 0:59

And I'm Tom Ka kosa.

Joe 1:00

And we're gonna be talking about the finale of A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms season one called uh The Morrow. And I have a note right away off about the title because thinking about it, I was just thinking, like, okay, the day after the trial, right? This is this is what this whole episode is. It's just kind of like a wrap-up the day after the aftermath. Um but I feel like there's more to it than that because they talk about the morrow. Um, I feel like later in the episode, um, is it when he's talking with Makar? And again, we're just jumping right through and skipping through, but just because this is related to the title of the episode. Oh, he talks about Sir Arlen used to say, you know, at night before they would go to bed, you know, he wonders what tomorrow will bring.

Tom 1:49

Okay.

Joe 1:49

So I feel like it's also not just talking about the day after the trial, but also like pondering about the future and his future and any like the opportunities that are out there for him. Sir Dunk. Sir Dunk.

Jen 2:05

Sir Dunk? Maybe Yeah. Sir Dunk.

Tom 2:09

So I also I guess that'll be the first thing I one of the first notes I had was like, I was right, and I thought I was wrong, and now it turns out I was right, but I I I tricked myself the other way.

Jen 2:20

I don't think we still know yet.

Tom 2:21

No, I think I think I mean whatever. He clearly has a vision or he's uh talking to you know Sir Arlen and asks why you never gave me why you never knighted me. But he's not dead yet. I don't think that's real. I don't I don't think that actually happened. I think that's uh him imagining talking to Sir Arland now.

Joe 2:39

Oh, I don't think so.

Tom 2:40

I'll go one further. I don't think Sir Arlen was ever really knighted.

Joe 2:44

Whoa.

Tom 2:45

If you listen to the story that he tells, he tells a story about men went off to war and they would nail a penny in a tree and then take it off when they came back. Yeah. And then his name is Sir Arland Penny Tree. Yeah. Like, I don't think he was ever knighted. I think he just went off to war and then became an itinerant fighter. Like he was just a soldier.

Joe 3:06

I don't think that's potentially he's he's saying that he will he was a squire for a hedge knight as well. He was not a lord or any anybody, just like Dunk came up with his own sigil and his own name. Sir Arlen did the same thing.

Tom 3:20

Yeah, exactly. I I think Sir Arlen did the exact same thing. He just said I'm a knight one day.

Joe 3:26

I don't think that means no, no, I don't mean that. I mean in the sense of like there are hedge knights, yeah, right, and they're not they don't have families like sigils and things like that. So when they do become knights, they have to make it up. And that was Arlin's story of how he came up with Penny Tree, just like Dunk's story. I I mean, I'm not saying he was, he wasn't uh knighted. I'm just saying I don't think that the the two things are connected.

Tom 3:51

I think when when Dunks imagining or remembering or whatever this conversation is, asking him why did you never knight me, and his answer is to tell a story about what was supposed to happen in his life, except he's here right now. I think he's basically saying, like, I never knighted you because I'm I'm I just this is what happens. Now like there's no I don't know how to do that. I'm not a real knight. I thought that was the reason that he told that story.

Joe 4:17

But he but Doc knows the words too, so he must have learned them from Sir Arlen, right? He doesn't know the words.

Jen 4:24

He didn't do it.

Joe 4:25

He didn't do it.

Tom 4:26

But I mean he people have a general idea of like, oh, you this is how you do that kind of stuff. But like he doesn't know the words.

Jen 4:35

Um I have I I a hundred percent thought that that was a real memory. And I thought that when he woke back up and said, like, a good night always finishes the story, I thought that meant like, oh, so he's not dead yet. He's not done with him, so he might still knight him. But then the very last shot, yeah, is that Sir Arlen like peeling off from him? Like that's that's So that's the only thing that's like maybe might be give me pause that it was Is Sir Arlene even real than anyone?

Tom 5:06

I do want to say I do want to say, like I actively disliked all of this. Really, really disliked all of this.

Jen 5:15

Oh boy, yeah, I Tom Hot take finale. Here we go.

Tom 5:18

No, I well, whatever. We'll get into the whole episode, but everything with Sir Arlen in this episode I didn't like, especially that end scene. Like, I don't it doesn't it doesn't it didn't work for me. It didn't work that like Sir Arlene passing the passing the fake night torch down to him. Now you could be a hedge knight and like I don't like it.

Joe 5:38

I think that was more of a dunk letting him go. Yeah, like like letting go, like all of this thoughts and feelings he has about Sir Arlene. Because like the whole time, I mean this whole season, he's he's thinking about Sir Arlen and thinking, like, wait, is this the guy I thought he was? Right? Like now that he's looking back on all of his memories of Sir Arlen, he seems to be uh questioning his original perception of Sir Arlen and thinking that this is this the guy that I always thought he was, maybe not. And I think that's just him letting go. Like, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.

Tom 6:12

I I guess I I think you're right, but I also think that that's not one of the reasons I didn't like that, that's a hundred percent not in line with like what he actively does in the episode, which is basically say, like, Sir Arlen had the right way about it, and not only that, but this kid needs a little bit of what Sir Arlen taught me. And like, so he's not like he's embracing that. He's not, he's not letting like he's not walking away from it. He's saying, like, that's the right way.

Joe 6:40

He's not questioning it anymore. Okay, all right, okay.

Jen 6:42

So then why wouldn't Sir Arlen just like fade out? The fact that he rode off on a white horse made me think it was Raymond who was just given a white horse and it's his friend. And he just like went home in another direction.

Tom 6:55

And we were like, but he didn't clearly had white hair and a beard when he left.

Joe 7:01

She hasn't been a little bit more.

Tom 7:02

He went into the wheat fields like uh like Gladiator.

Jen 7:04

But he didn't disappear.

Joe 7:06

Oh, yeah.

Tom 7:06

Or uh No, he just walked off screen. He just wrote off screen. Yeah, he just wrote off screen.

Joe 7:11

The other thing is, all right, so there were two things that I wanted to talk about in that when you brought up the line, a true knight always finishes his stories.

Jen 7:19

Yeah.

Joe 7:19

Shot shot at George R. Martin, shots by the time. A little bit, yes.

Jen 7:24

Yeah, I thought so too.

Tom 7:25

Possibly. Well, he finished this story.

Jen 7:28

Did he? He's got like 17 more he wanted to write. This one story. Oh, I'm sorry.

Joe 7:34

Um, if you cut and then the two books that he still needs to finish for uh the Song of Ice and Fire. Yeah, yeah. Uh yeah, I didn't think about it until I saw somebody post something about it online. I was like, oh yeah, I didn't think about like hey, because he does kind of he almost winks at the camera when he says that. Yeah, but I was thinking more of you thought there's the playfulness in this story, uh the way they're telling it, is you there's a serious moment there, and you think you're you think you're gonna find out the answer. No, he didn't knight him because this is where he dies. Yeah. And then he gets up, and just like Dunk with the, you know, I love a pretend eyes open death on this show. Yeah, very weird. Um, and yeah, and then he wakes up and then he's like a true knight, always finishes his story. And he almost like wings, and then but I will say this.

Tom 8:28

Then he dies. Doesn't he die right then after he says that?

Joe 8:31

He dies very soon. He dies very soon after because the the thunder's rolling in and the clouds are rolling in through the whole time he's that that scene's happening, and the story begins where it's raining out and Sir Arlene's dead. So I think this is right before, but the question the question still stands like, did he then knight dunk, you know, Sir Dunk? And and I think I love that the show decided to really like play with this and tease us with this whole thing, because in the story, like you're like, did he do did he knight? Uh it doesn't really matter. Who cares? Right. But this they really like kind of make it a part of the whole story is like keeping you guessing and never giving you the exact answer. And I like that.

Jen 9:13

I feel like at this point in the show, like they don't never should never come up again. Like at this point, he's a knight.

Joe 9:19

Well, if they do, they probably that's like jumping the shark in the show, I think, if they get to that point.

Tom 9:24

Yeah, yeah.

Joe 9:25

They're like, we gotta keep people interested somehow. Let's reveal what really happened.

Tom 9:28

Yeah. Yeah, I I think there's no like like the greater point is it doesn't matter anymore. He clearly is a knight, and he's like a famous knight that like is responsible for a prince dying. Um, you know, uh yeah, I don't think it's it's a moot point anyway.

unknown 9:48

Yeah.

Jen 9:49

Can we go back to the first scene? Sure, let's open up one of my favorite scenes of the whole season.

Joe 9:54

The jazz? The jazz music like that.

Jen 9:56

I I have like six notes.

Tom 10:00

There's literally one. I mean, we're getting that there's like one part of this episode that I like. It's in this, it's in this opening bit, but I hated the music in the beginning, hated it.

Jen 10:08

No, that it was weird, but I hated the music at the end, hated it.

Tom 10:11

Like um this is not a show that should have an anachronistic music in it.

Joe 10:14

I don't think it was well, it was only it was very short though, too. It was only like seconds or whatever. Yeah, you know, it so they didn't like it's not like it rolled through the whole episode.

Tom 10:23

That's true. It was I mean, it wasn't like somebody had a boombox or whatever, but like still I uh jazz should not be playing in this.

Jen 10:29

And then uh he's like, I can't I can't help him, his wounds are mortifying. And he's like, get the fuck out of here. You're a terrible maester. He's a shit maester, and that's it. He's good now.

Joe 10:40

He said something like he couldn't cure an itchy asshole or something.

Jen 10:44

No, he said like an itchy asshole is beyond your abilities or something.

Tom 10:49

He's like, it's beyond my abilities. Right? He's great. His his line to like the the the the guilt that that Doug feels about Kelly Surveillance, fuck him and fuck you. That's the best part of this entire episode.

Joe 11:04

Well, yeah, and he goes, he he, you know, he's like, I fought for you. He's like the apple boy fought for you. Still doesn't remember his name.

Tom 11:14

That guy picked a fight against two guys who couldn't fight back.

Joe 11:16

Like he's uh he's like, he wasn't in any danger. He fought against guys who were sworn to protect him. Right.

Jen 11:23

Oh my god.

Joe 11:24

So I did I did love that.

Jen 11:25

He's an antler as a crutch.

Tom 11:27

He does. Like he's great, and like um, you know, um, I don't I haven't read the other story, so I can't I don't I legitimately do not know uh if any of the characters come back in later stories or not. Well, but I will say this after watching this episode of television, I am very comfortable that this show is going to alter those stories if necessary to put these characters back in it. Because that's what this episode was was like.

Joe 11:57

I have some information about that, some real world information about that. So Daniel Ags was interviewed um in Collider, and he talks a little bit about he talks about a lot of things, but there's a little bit about this, right? He says, I mean, I couldn't possibly comment on series two, but I would love for audiences to get to see Lionel Baratheon again. I'd love to play this guy again. He's not in the second book or the third book, as with the first. These series will be very faithful to George R. Martin's writing. Actually, I spoke to George one day on set. He came down and was like, you know, your character comes back later on down the line. Back to him saying, and I done I had done a little deep dive into Westeros lore online, and you can find so much of the history that's written, uh, even if the books haven't necessarily been written yet. But yeah, there's some interesting story to tell further down the line with Lionel Dunk and Egg. But you know, I have to wait to see if the story catches up to it. And if that story ever gets told, I'd be pumped.

Jen 13:01

Alright.

Joe 13:02

That's a long quote.

Jen 13:04

Confirming or denying season two.

Tom 13:06

Really. Yes, he's saying, well, he's yeah. That's what I think. I think there's a very yeah, I feel like I feel like this episode kind of gave me uh a vibe that like, hey, they're gonna do adaptations of whatever is in story two, and they can add shit because like and they can just let you know what's happening with characters that aren't in that story. Because I feel like a lot of that's that's what happens in this episode. A majority of this episode is stuff that's not in the book. It's happening, like it's not necessarily conflicting with book uh a lot of it, a lot of it's just expanding on what's going on.

Joe 13:40

Yeah, exactly.

Tom 13:41

And I I think they'll have they'll have room to continue to do that.

Joe 13:44

Yeah, it's definitely it's beefing up like the end the end of the story is pretty straightforward. You know, there's um there is the scene with um May Car and him, and I mean we could talk about that whole thing, which was a little different. Um But I think also he buys his own, he gets his own horse back. Yes. Uh Raymond doesn't get it because he gets he winds up getting me.

Tom 14:08

I don't know if you see Raymond again after after Yeah, you might not. I think I think yeah, he gets the horse. He doesn't give it to Raymond, he just gets the horse back, and he he has the conversations with uh Baylor's son with make right with with with uh and then this the conversation at the end. That's pretty much it with with with Agg.

Joe 14:28

Yeah, yeah. Um we could go back to uh Raymond. Oh no, poor boy. He gets married to the prostitute and thinks he got her pregnant already.

Jen 14:40

Oh no, Raymond is my note about the same to marrier.

Tom 14:44

Yeah, it starts out where it's like, oh okay. Then you're like, oh, alright. Then you're like, oh, he he's so like inexperienced that he thinks that she can tell what the baby is after a couple of hours or something.

Joe 14:57

Also that he got her pregnant. Right. Right. Who's that's that's probably uh what's his name's kid.

Jen 15:05

Yeah, the other.

Tom 15:06

Or she's a process, it would literally be anybody's kid. That's true.

Joe 15:10

That's true. It could literally be anybody. But um that's all right. She's she's cool. I do just just just getting back one more time to the first scene when um with Lionel Brad, and he goes, you know, he offers him to come with him and you know, work with him or serve him, and he says at the end, before they leave, he's like, Well, I'm le I'm leaving after the roast. Cuts to the funeral and Baylor's body burning, and I'm like, oh my god.

Tom 15:40

He's he's so good, he's so well written, and that character's awesome.

Joe 15:43

You think he's talking about like some great feast for after the tourney, and it's not now he's talking about Prince Baylor's funeral. Yeah. Such good, such good stuff there.

Tom 15:53

It also, I think, you know, you've got from the original Game of Thrones stories, right? You have you know uh Robert's Rebellion, and that's over a girl. But like it also is good to see like, well, you know what? The Barathians just, I guess, you know, as a familial through line, hate these guys. You know, and it's good to kind of establish that too. Like he, uh, like the Apple boy, like think that they're just filthy invaders.

Joe 16:17

Yeah.

Tom 16:18

You know, and there's no love lost.

Joe 16:19

Well, we got some more apple puns in a little bit here in this episode, so I was happy about that.

Jen 16:24

I think of you with every apple pun. Or not even puns, just like Raymond's just like drop, oh, we're gonna go back to the cider business. It's just like, I'm a I'm a new green apple. Better than a worm one.

Joe 16:38

All right.

Jen 16:38

Well, my favorite one You don't have to talk about apples in every breath. Like it's okay.

Joe 16:43

My favorite one was his uh his new wife when she says, Oh, your brains are all applesauce.

Jen 16:49

Oh, I didn't even hear that one.

Joe 16:51

It's like the second scene when they're in the uh like the tavern.

Tom 16:54

Oh, yeah, where he's like why is the uh how to had to get the bees and oh yeah.

Jen 16:59

I was just gonna say, please don't bury me in bees. That's the last time pla time.

Tom 17:04

Those guys are just dead, and like that's all you get for that.

Jen 17:08

He's put the queen bee in the in the casket, they said. Yeah. That's it.

Joe 17:12

Beesberry.

Jen 17:14

Beesberry.

Joe 17:15

Yeah.

Jen 17:16

Um everyone's just like hanging out in there with the bees. Well, they're not just let them fly.

Tom 17:23

You're not gonna do anything. They're not wasps.

Jen 17:25

I know.

Joe 17:26

Yeah. Um How about I was gonna talk about you know, get over to like Egg and Dunk and uh Makar, those scenes. Um what did you all think about the scene with Egg almost killing his brother? Yeah, yeah. Um was he gonna do it? Was he gonna make him a sister, get it get himself a sister? Or he was No, I think he was gonna kill him.

Tom 17:54

I think he was gonna kill him. I think he he saw his blonde hair growing back and was you know reminded of why he hates that and decided to kill his brother. I again, I don't think you need egg to be tempted to be evil, and that's why the audience needs to understand that it's not healthy for him to be around his family. Like, his family are a bunch of assholes. Like the audience already understands why Dunk would want him to leave, like, and why Egg might want to leave. You don't have to have Egg being tempted to to kill his brother. I I I I I didn't I didn't like it. I thought it was very melodramatic. I felt like uh I felt like this was the one episode of the show that like executives had a lot of of of feedback about what they needed to see, and they were like, you need to have stakes for next season. And I felt like they kept getting that note and they kept just throwing things in here to like try and hook an audience for to to watch next season.

Joe 18:46

I want this is what I think of that scene. I liked it, and I'm gonna tell you why. Because I think it's reminding everybody that, yeah, right, Baylor, right? I I think there's two things in this episode where it's about the Targaryens, right? It's Lionel in the beginning saying, you know, he didn't sacrifice anything for you, like he was in no danger. You you think he's great, he's a shit Targaryen. Only drag good dragons a dead dragon. And then you get Egg doing that where you think, you know, he's a Targaryen. Like no matter what, he's a Targaryen, and they're all wind up gonna wind up doing something shitty. Right. Um so that's that's the reason I like that. Now I don't know if that was the intention of it, um, but that's that's what I took away from it.

Tom 19:32

I I do think that was the intention. I think I think it was really for I think the intention of that scene is for the audience to say, like, oh no, if egg stays, he'll be bad, like the rest of them.

Jen 19:42

Well, it almost was like a I don't know if I'm using the word red herring correctly, but like Makar seeing that made Makar think, oh, I have to get him out of here. So then when Dunk when Egg shows up at the end, that's why you think right? Is that is that like the order of the show? Like but then it ends up being not true because Makar. Yeah, like uh So it was like that's it was like that was I didn't like that either. I gotta tell you. When Egg showed up, it was like, you know, Makar saw the light because look, this his little boy who we thought was so innocent is gonna do this. Like, let's get him out of here before it's too late. But then that was just like to throw us off.

Tom 20:23

Uh is that before.

Jen 20:25

I can't remember if that's like the right.

Tom 20:27

So it's it's after it's after the first conversation. It's when Dunk it's after Dunk's refused to go with them, and then Dunk comes and interrupts to say, I'll take him with me.

Jen 20:38

And he says no.

Tom 20:39

And he says no. But the And he says, I have to say, he's I I do like like he is a very loving father, and like that's legitimate. And like him saying to Dunk, I've got one son left.

Joe 20:51

Yeah, that's he's yes, he says he's my last son. As if the other two sons are dead. Yeah, the three sons. But he's dead, yeah. He's my he's dead, he's my last chance for like a red son.

Jen 21:06

That's what he means, though. Yes, he means.

Joe 21:08

Does he, or is he like these other two sons are basically dead, useless pieces of shit.

Jen 21:13

Yeah, they they are, they're dead.

Joe 21:15

One more chance to go. It's like they're dead already to him.

Tom 21:18

Well, they're not dead, but they're like, I think he feels like he's failed as a father. Yeah.

Joe 21:23

Yeah. Okay. He's already he's already charm, dog.

Tom 21:28

And like he can't risk him just dying in a field, you know?

Joe 21:31

Which I guess it's it's a reasonable thing to say. And like wouldn't you think like I mean, I immediately think, hey, so do the opposite what you think you should do because you fucked up the other two.

Tom 21:44

I mean, he is trying to go.

Joe 21:45

He is what you think happens. You think he's like, okay, you know what? I don't want to fuck up this guy, this one like I did the other ones. I'm gonna let him go with dunk. And then they make some stupid decision. And I'm sorry, I'm gonna say it's a stupid decision at the end to Be like, no, Bakhart didn't let him go. He snuck off. Yeah. Why and and that's like a whole change now. Cause that's how are they gonna roll that into the next seasons?

Tom 22:10

That yeah, exactly. That's the point. Like, now you now you're gonna keep the now that you'll even if they're not in the books, and I don't know the answer to that. Like, you're always gonna have the Targaryens going, like, I have to find my son. Like, we a manhunt and this and that, the other thing.

Joe 22:24

Unless he just like thinks about it, wakes up the next morning, is like, ah, you know what? Maybe I should let him go, and just doesn't do anything.

Jen 22:30

But he doesn't even know if that's he doesn't even 100% know that that's where he went.

Joe 22:34

Oh, he knows that's where he went. Yeah, he knows, he knows for sure that's where he went.

Jen 22:38

When he was saying, come to Summer Hall and you know I was like, that's a pretty good deal. It's a good deal.

Joe 22:44

Yeah.

Tom 22:45

I mean, if they weren't Targary, I guess it was a very nice way of saying, like, you clearly need additional training.

Jen 22:52

Right, right.

Joe 22:52

Oh, yeah, he's and you could he's like he'll squire under you, and you could finish your training. Yeah. Um yeah, he gets two offers to go to two of the big like most powerful houses in the nine kingdoms. Question mark.

Tom 23:08

I didn't that that that was my second favorite. Like I I like when a show changes the title at the end of the at the end of the first season. I enjoy that. I feel like that's like an in joke in the fan community that I missed that like two of those things aren't like a like that people are like, why it there's more lands than there are kingdoms? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe 23:28

Well, I I also I I didn't look, I meant to look it up just to confirm like what exactly the difference is, but I always remember like Dorne not being part of the the king of those because it never it never surrendered to the Targaryens.

Jen 23:41

There's a part where like Robert Baratheon will say, like, you know, seven kingdoms, one king. Yeah, or something. So it's like, but there's a prince in Dorne who's like in charge of the wheel.

Tom 23:52

And the islands too, right?

Jen 23:53

Aren't the iron the uh I don't think he's the king of the Iron Islands. Right.

Tom 23:57

No, but that's listed as one of the nine kingdoms. Right, right. I think those are the two that aren't technically part of the seven.

Joe 24:03

I feel like, yeah. Right. Yeah. There's another one in there that didn't sound familiar, so I don't know if it's a lot of things.

Jen 24:07

Well, you said the Vale The Vale, the Reach, the Westerlands, the North.

Joe 24:11

The Westerlands, yeah. What's that? I don't know.

Jen 24:14

I don't know. Born.

Joe 24:16

Um all the other ones I heard of. The Westerlands, uh, I didn't know what that was. So I don't know. I didn't look it up. I guess I could Google it if we really want to.

Jen 24:24

Oh, the Riverlands, I think.

Joe 24:25

Yeah. Yeah. Um The North, yeah.

Jen 24:28

Yeah.

Joe 24:29

Anyway. Um, yeah. Jen, your thoughts. I want to know what your thoughts are on that change of the ending there where Makehart didn't let him go. Oh, sneak saw.

Jen 24:40

Yeah. I read something online that somebody thought that like he did let him go, but now he's like pretending that he didn't let him go. I don't think that's he I think he looked really mad. Like he didn't really I don't know. So like he could go, but nobody knew that he said it was okay. Or something. So I I don't know. That was just an idea.

Joe 25:01

Oh, like he doesn't want to look like Yeah. Like people questioning him, like how could you let your son go? So Yeah, I don't know.

Jen 25:08

But then there's still like you would still have to pretend to look for him, I guess. So it doesn't really make sense. Um yeah, I don't it would have been nice for them to just be able to go off and have another adventure without like the same shit happening with the Terrarians looking for him. Yeah. So yeah, I don't I don't I don't know. I guess it was like dramatic. It was like a nice little end to the show, like a dr you know, a hook for next season. Uh is it just like them walking off into the sunset together?

Joe 25:36

I I want to believe that when they start the next season, they're gonna just write that off. They'll do a wheel of time and just totally like write, you know, write off like what happened. It'll just be like, no, they're not looking for him anymore. He changed his mind. Like they're gonna be able to get a mic. They sent him a letter, it's fine now.

Jen 25:54

Dunk doesn't know that they're that they're looking for him. So I know if as long as they never catch him, you wouldn't even know about it. You know? It's like we don't see the Targaryens.

Joe 26:04

Yeah. But then I would just wonder why then did they understand why put that? I feel like they wouldn't have put it in the end of the season. They wouldn't have made that change at the end of the season unless it there was plans to roll with that.

Jen 26:16

I feel like there's no exciting ending without that.

Joe 26:19

It was nice when Doug shows up.

Jen 26:21

You think it's nice, but that's not a good way to end a show.

Joe 26:25

I I think it's very happy. It's a happy ending.

Jen 26:28

The two of them ride off into the sunset. But it's not over. Like there's more to come.

Joe 26:33

So they're they're going to Dorn.

Tom 26:36

Yeah, I I think if I think like that's how the book ends, right? The book ends with them basically kind of going, like, yeah, we've never seen Dorn before. And remember that girl that I didn't say, but remember the girl that I liked? She was she that's where she went, right? So let's go. She's going to Dorn. Right. So damn it, Dorn. Right, lean into one, Dorn. Um so again, I feel like this is like the the the show that was the episode that was that was most like I think you're exactly right, Jen. I feel like this is very executive-y kind of like, it's not catchy enough at a hook, right? Like, the reason I love this show so much is that even though the clearly the stakes got more and more as as this show progressed, it's a much simpler story. It like game of the Targaryens are not like like I understand there's a whole show The House of the Dragon, but people don't like that show as much because it is only Targaryens or mostly Targaryens. Like that we don't need them to enjoy this world. This is a show about a regular person and a guy who happens to be a Targaryen, like just traveling around, let them have adventures. That's fine. Like we don't need extra shit.

Joe 27:43

Well, there's gonna be plenty of shit for them to do. Like it's not like there's There's a whole world out there. Unless they're gonna just start peppering and like store like obviously they want to fill out some stuff, you know, beef it up. So maybe they're just gonna use this as the additional things. Like, there's always gonna be it's gonna be like uh Monty Python and the Holy Grail. Every once in a while they'll cut to the police officers investigating all the deaths and things that are happening. Okay, fair enough. They'll just cut, they'll just cut every once in a while to people searching for them.

Jen 28:12

Uh I I almost feel like it could have been like added in afterwards. Where they filmed it, they showed everybody, and they were like, uh, huh? And they were like, no, like go back and and make the dad not know. You know, like it's just that one little scene. So I don't know.

Joe 28:29

Yeah, they could have totally added that in.

Tom 28:32

Look at your counting heads.

Jen 28:34

Yeah.

Tom 28:34

I felt like it was very like uh give me a uh beginning of home alone vibe.

Jen 28:38

Yeah.

Tom 28:42

Right. Right.

Jen 28:43

Yeah, bold kid.

Joe 28:46

Um we still I know we we kind of touched on it a bit, but we didn't we moved away from it though, you know. Does anyone's thoughts change on whether you think Dunk was actually knighted by Sir Arlen? Did this episode change any thoughts, convince you otherwise?

Jen 29:03

No. It's it's still ambiguous to me. And I don't I don't think it really matters. Um we said it before, like he's he's a better knight than most of the real knights. He's better at it. I mean, like, not as far as fighting, but as far as like being what a knight is supposed to be.

Tom 29:19

Following the code of chivalry.

Jen 29:21

Yeah.

Tom 29:22

So yeah, I I think that's that's the most important thing. I will show I will say that over the course of the show, my opinion has changed twice. So I thought he wasn't knighted, then I thought he was knighted, and now I think he wasn't knighted again. But I again I think like the that that conversation should not come up anymore, right? Yeah. Like you said, like everything about Sir Arlen and what he did or didn't do, or how like that's all gone. He walked away, he's gone. Yeah. Leave it in the past.

Joe 29:49

Yeah. Yeah. I think that's it. I think, yeah, they put an end to that question by not answering it.

Jen 29:55

I just feel like they should have, like, as he walked off into the field, he should have like disappeared. Because it really just looked like another person that was riding with them. Like it it wasn't clear that this was like a spectral. A ghost or like not a real thing. I thought. I don't know.

Tom 30:10

Like I got it after a minute, but I was like, what Right the Wheat the wheat should like the field shouldn't have moved as the horse went through it.

Jen 30:18

Yeah, like it just sort of like he just sort of like faded away.

Joe 30:22

You were doing like a Russell Crowe and gladiator thing there, as we talked about before with his hands in the wheat field.

Jen 30:27

I don't I don't know.

Joe 30:28

I just like going into the cornfield.

Jen 30:33

It was just a weird visual.

Joe 30:35

I may should have had him singing in Dothraki. Yeah, right.

Jen 30:38

Yeah. Any like just yeah, I don't know. Something else to make it more clear.

Joe 30:44

Um so just a little uh uh information. Um so HBO reported a staggering 9.5 million viewers for this episode in the first three days. And it's officially become the third biggest series debut in HBO. It says HBO Max history.

unknown 31:04

Okay.

Jen 31:05

So they can go back and forth between HBO and HBO Max and regular Max.

Joe 31:09

I don't know what that means.

Jen 31:11

I really don't know if that means like Since it became HBO Max again.

Joe 31:14

Right. I I don't know. Like three months ago or whatever it was. Well, it's just trailing only The Last of Us in House of the Dragon. So I guess those started when it turned to Max, right? I have no idea.

Jen 31:26

Yeah, I didn't think that meaning. It was HBO, it was HBO Max, and it was just Max, now it's HBO Max again.

Joe 31:32

Since it's moved to a primarily streaming model, uh I don't know what that means, if that means in all of HBO's history or not. So that's all debut, maybe. Maybe not like finale, but this was on uh this was Gizmodo. Maybe I can find a little bit more about uh what they said there. Did you know? So remember we've been talking about like the ratings of some of the episodes, like getting nine sevens and nine eights on um on uh IMDB. Apparently, there were fans of breaking bad who were purposely ranking the episode one star because they didn't want it to be uh uh rated as high as uh one of the breaking bad. I think it's it might be the final part of the second one.

Jen 32:17

Like that apparently how much free time do you have?

Joe 32:20

Apparently, then like people, fans of us of this show, Night of the Seven Kingdoms, then went to IMDB and started doing it to the Ozzie Mendias episode where it no longer has like a perfect rating. Oh wow. See? Good. Yes, exactly right. I I uh we tweeted about that. I thought that was really interesting.

Jen 32:39

I guess barking bad fans can't.

Joe 32:41

Fun stuff.

Jen 32:42

Now you've ruined your own perfect show.

Joe 32:44

For for those people who like to uh collect hard media, uh Warner Brothers just confirmed that the first season will be out on 4K Ultra HD and Blu-ray on June 16th.

Jen 32:57

When's uh the Wheel of Time DVD Blu-ray coming out?

Joe 33:01

I don't think ever. The 12th of February.

Jen 33:03

Sorry, sorry to sorry to dip into the past a little bit. Just uh just a little just a little annoying.

Joe 33:08

It includes a documentary called Building a Night and a set tour of Ashford Meadow.

Jen 33:13

Of course it does. So of course it does. Yeah, and some grass like from the meadows like stuck inside the front of the fire, right?

Joe 33:19

Maybe we can get free ones because we just plugged it. If HBO's listening.

Jen 33:25

HBO HBO Max.

Joe 33:29

Warner Brothers Discovery.

Jen 33:31

Soon to be Paramount Warner Brothers.

Joe 33:34

Warner Brothers Discovery.

Jen 33:36

Is that uh the Animaniacs? The Warner Brothers and the Sister.

Tom 33:42

The sister died. Uh the sister. So I'm gonna ask a question. I said before I really dislike the the use of anachronistic music in this episode. But I like the jazz in the beginning more than I like the song at the end. Because I really like the song at the end. And I don't know if either of you are familiar with that, like like familiar uh with the song 16 tons, right?

Joe 34:07

I've heard that song before, yes. Okay. I'm not like super familiar with it, but I've heard it before.

Tom 34:11

So it's a song, right? And then if you listen to the lit, they they have enough of it that you can kind of get a gist of it, right? So it's a song, it's like an old like American folk protestee kind of song about back in the day when you worked as a miner, like you worked in a mining town that was owned by the company that employed you, and the the company that employed you also owned all the businesses in the town, and they didn't pay you enough to actually live. So you're constantly borrowing back from the company to buy food and buy supplies to like live in your life. So like you would work for this horrible job, bust your hump to do as much as possible, but like still be in hocks at the company, so you wouldn't even get a paycheck, you would still be at a negative. That's what the song's about. I don't know why they picked that song because Dunk doesn't work for like it doesn't make any songs.

Joe 35:01

It's not a minor.

Tom 35:02

Yeah, none of it, like it doesn't I understand, like it's a good song. I like the song. It doesn't really it's not really applicable.

Jen 35:08

Maybe it's like he thinks he got away from the Targaryens, but he really didn't because that's that's the question I'm asking you. Like, why why did they pick that? Buddy didn't, buddy, buddy, he's not like free to go, like the Targaryens are still looking for him. He thinks he got away, but he didn't. I don't know.

Tom 35:27

Maybe yeah, I I that works for me. I I was just yeah, I really wanted your your take as to like why they picked that song. What is the name of it? Sixteen tons. Okay.

Joe 35:36

Um maybe it's just maybe they're comparing Dunk, a hedge knight, to to to that those miners.

Tom 35:44

Yeah, I think there's a certain like there's an ethos about like, hey, a working man's never ever gonna get is never gonna get on top of it. He's always a working man's gonna be a working man for this entire day, right? Um and I think that's yeah, or they just thought, like, hey, I like the song, I want to put it in.

Joe 36:00

Well, no, no, I was gonna say, oh, they thought like they were just thinking they didn't go past like this is a song about miners. And it was like, like, miners are like the working class, you know, just like hedge nights are. Like that's that that could be the next one. That could be it. That's all that's all they thought about. Right. It's as far as we could get.

Tom 36:18

Okay. I'm I'm I'm I'm good with that one. All right, yeah, yeah. There was like like a in like the 50s, I want to say, there was like a pop version of that. That when I was a kid, it always got played on like the oldie stations. Um, not the version that was at the end of this, but like a different version of it.

Joe 36:33

So just about, you know, we talk we've been talking a lot throughout the covering this series, this season, about the flashbacks with Sir Arlen. And I know Tom, you did not like them in this episode. In this episode, but just yeah, yeah. But going back through the whole season, you know, I was a little skeptical of them. I wasn't totally sold on them, but like to be honest, Tom, I really like the flashbacks in this episode with Sir Arlen. I feel like, you know, look thinking back on the story, he talks about Sir Arlen so much in the story. So I feel like this was this was the way to do that. You know, obviously it's a visual medium, so like let's just show flashbacks instead of have Dunk thinking about him. I obviously you can't show him thinking about them. Or this is him thinking about him, really. Right, right. You're kind of getting inside Dunk's head. And I I always wonder if these flashbacks are um uh what's the word you would use for because they're his flashbacks, so they're not necessarily what really happened.

Tom 37:33

Oh, yeah, yeah. They're they're very subjective, like yeah, subjective. It's memory, it's not like yeah, it's not a it's not reality.

Joe 37:39

Yeah, this is this isn't a flashback, this is uh his memory. So um, so I kind of like that now. I I I kind of got that more now with this episode, and it's it's his memory, it's not necessarily what actually happened, it's how he perceived it, how he remembers it. And then also, like, like I said, throughout this season, when we're having this flashback, he's kind of questioning you know, Sir Arlen and like thinking back on all the stuff, you know, and the experiences we had with him and how he was. And yeah, I think it's I don't want to say this because I feel like it's a cop out, but this is it's him grieving over Sir Arlen's death this whole season. Is this his his grief, how he's expressing his grief. Um we kind of at least I did. I feel like I kind of overlook that through the whole season, and even in the story, because I mean then maybe in the story you don't get it as much that he's like you don't really feel him grieving, but I feel like in the show you feel him now. Like I'm making the connection where he's been grieving this whole time about Sir Arlen's death, and this is him coping with it. And I it just literally watching this episode made me realize that.

Tom 38:45

I think that's I think that's really insightful, Joe. I think I don't know if I necessarily thought about that, but I do think that you're right. Uh yeah, I think Dunks a more nuanced character, and not that he's one note in the story, but like you're getting it from his point of view, and he's not particularly skilled at introspection. So like you don't get a lot of like um, you don't get a lot of that necessarily, but like, yeah, I think you're right. I think Sir Arlen's like finest achievement was this time that he that he did well in a tournament, not like you know, that he went whatever it was four four rounds. And like for Dunk to say, like, okay, the first thing I'm gonna do is I'm gonna go to this tournament and I'm gonna win, and that's gonna prove that, like, you know, I think you're right. I think it's a way of like honoring him, and it starts out where he's gonna he's going there and his hope, his his real hope. And I don't know if it's really it's expressly said in the story. I don't know if it's really expressly said in the in the in the show. His hope is exactly what he gets two times in the this last episode, which is that some lord will be so impressed by him that he will offer him like a permanent nightly position. And like two, permanently. I think it's two, but like so.

Joe 39:52

I do think like he just wants to win what his whole thing is like I just need to win one. I just need to win once, right?

Tom 39:58

One tilt, and I'll have enough money that I can do what I want. And if I do well, this is like my my my dream goal, right?

Joe 40:04

My auditioning here.

Tom 40:06

And like, in a way, I think he's like, I'm gonna better Surro, and then that's like where his head is at. Like Sir Owen never got this, he was a hedge knight to the day he died. I'm gonna be a knight knight. And it ends with him saying, No, like I want to be a hedge knight. That's where real knighting happens.

Joe 40:24

Yeah, yes, exactly. Where real knighting, I like that phrase. Yeah, he's like, I've seen what these supposed real knights which is kind of weird to me because I mean he's probably met a lot of knights before if he was around Sir Arlen for all this time squiring for him. I mean, unless he had to have been around other knights, right?

Tom 40:42

He did, but he probably spoke to squires more than he interacted with like this level of officer.

Joe 40:48

Well, I would imagine all the squires talk shit about their knights, though. Like that's yeah. And I guess like I imagine this is his first exposure to like like the the highest.

Tom 40:59

Like what his dream was, which is like to be there. Like he says here. He paints the picture in this of like, maybe we'll work with like a landed lordling, you know? Like that's the level of he's like what the fossa ways are is like the highest that he's been around so far.

Joe 41:22

Right. And there's another line too now that now that I'm thinking about it, you know, putting that all together with uh the grieving Sir Arlen, right? He talks, he says to uh is it in the front is it the beginning conversation where he says like everything I oh he might have said to Makar when he first talks to Makar, like everything I everyone I come in contact with or whatever, everything I touch I ruin or destroy. I don't know, he's something to that effect where he's like, you don't want me around because everything or everyone I'm you know whatever come in contact with gets ruined or destroyed or whatever. And I didn't think about it until now, just talking about Sir Arlen, but he's also talking about Sir Arlen. Yeah, like I was just thinking about like the girl, like Tansil and and obviously Baylor and the other knights who died. He's thinking about them, but yeah, Rafe now, right? We got a flashback with with Rafe. So, you know, I'm putting all of those together as well.

Tom 42:18

I liked that.

Joe 42:18

Yeah, I liked it. I I liked it. I I like this episode better when I I watched it, you know, a second time, and I liked it better the second time. Um I knew going in, and I'm sure you probably both felt the the same that there was gonna be a lot of extra additional stuff added into this.

Tom 42:35

Yeah.

Joe 42:35

Yeah because right after the after the trial, there's only like three three or four pages or five pages left in the story.

Jen 42:43

Yeah. I feel like he gets to talk to everybody that's important, that's that's left.

Joe 42:51

He does his little goodbye tour um with everybody. He talks to uh we didn't talk about this, but he talks to Valar in the beginning. Um and there's a lot of questioning of like why did why did the gods take Baylor and leave Dunk alive? You know that the conversation with Makar, that first one, is really good. I really like that conversation where he's he's like, you know, I I think about my is my foot worth you know a prince and then he thinks about like how it could be at some point in life because I doubt it. Um but I didn't like the end. That ru it I'm sorry, it didn't ruin the whole episode for me, but the decision to not let Makar like for Egg to sneak off without Makar his dad knowing. I didn't like I still don't like that. No, sir. I don't like it. Anything else? Or should we just go into our ratings? I think I'm good. Alright. I'm gonna go I'll go first. I've thought about this for a bit. I'll give it a I'll give it a 3-5. Not my favorite episode, but um I I wasn't expecting much going into it, to be honest. With you, just because of what you know what we just said, where we knew it was just gonna be a lot of kind of fill. Although they did do a good job of kind of making it interesting and um adding to the story. But um yeah, it was it was really just like a wrap-up episode. So three five, but still good.

Jen 44:18

I liked it a lot, actually. Um I'm gonna give it a four. If we didn't mention two when eggs says to dunk, like I guess you're not the night I thought you were. Oh and doesn't it cut like right to the scene then or or it's very close where like is he is he really a knight at all?

Joe 44:37

Like Oh oh I didn't pick up on that chat.

Jen 44:40

I'm not sure if it's right after, but I think it I think it's close.

Tom 44:44

Oh yeah, I I don't think it's surprised for anybody who was listening. I did not like this episode. Um after the credits rolled, I watched this uh with my wife, and my first word was woof.

Joe 44:55

Okay.

Tom 44:56

Yeah, I so I'm gonna give it a two-star. I there was really only the only scene I thought actually was was was good is like the the opening scene with uh and I thought I I did think a couple of the conversations were well done uh with Makar as well. Uh the end of that, totally like I said, I f I felt like this whole the first five episodes of the show, we had one show, and this sixth episode was like, make it like Game of Thrones. Really? Don't make yeah, I felt like not from the creative team. I again I really, really felt like, and maybe I'm wrong, maybe this was a creative decision. This is all generated by by uh the the showrunners, but I felt like this was like HBO saying, do this, do this, do this, do this, do this, and I felt the thumb on the scale in almost every scene. Again, like the making egg a potential murderer. I don't like it. I think that was I think it was really like that. I actually almost everything that I thought I I didn't like in this show at all. I didn't like the way he I thought he was not good in this episode, and I feel bad because it's child and he's very good in every other episode.

Joe 46:00

Well, you mean it's not him being good, you mean the like it's just no, I thought his performance was bad in this episode too.

Tom 46:04

It's the one episode where I think he's an inactive. Sorry for making you say sorry again, Tom.

Joe 46:10

Yeah, that even crashing a little child.

Tom 46:13

Yeah, and another thing, uh no. Um and I feel bad because I I like it doesn't ruin the whole season, and I'm gonna be very excited to see season two. I just felt like um I felt like they were afraid that they had a show that was tight in scope and they like somebody was like, no, you gotta make it bigger, you gotta make it more like it doesn't need to do that. And I felt like that was a bad change.

Jen 46:37

I thought that like every conversation in this was like a one-on-one, though.

Tom 46:42

Uh I what I mean that uh you're right, Jed. And I just be clear, what I mean is like I watched this episode and I believe that the the Targaryen royal family is going to be in every episode next season. No matter what else is happening, you're gonna see those people, right? And like I said, I despite what that interview was, I wouldn't be surprised if we see Lord Baratheon and the and the and the and and Raymond as well. Like I think they've decided that it can't be small in scope because people don't want that. People want Game of Thrones to be big in scope.

Joe 47:12

And like I oh, I'm gonna disagree with you. I don't think that's what's gonna happen.

Tom 47:17

I I hope it's not, and I'm I'm gonna be excited to see.

Joe 47:23

To keep it this like this. I I I don't I don't think next thing I don't understand how you're grand in because of the story, right? There's there's a little more like uh a set set, you know, like location type things going on. Yeah, but well they've leveled up. It should be it should be a little bit more, right? This is it's not just gonna be out in a field and under a tree for the entire season.

Tom 47:46

But I I think watching this episode, I don't know how you could not think that that that that that tease of like egg ran off by his own and this dad doesn't know where he is, and his dad explicitly tells Dunk, I do not want him to go with you, you know? I they should have like I don't know how you could not expect that they're gonna be in the next season.

Jen 48:08

But then what are you gonna do?

Tom 48:09

Like halfway through the same thing, they find him and No, I don't think they're gonna be involved in the storyline at all. I think that it's gonna be an adaptation of the second story, and you're just gonna have a bunch of stuff with the Targaryens. And if you're gonna do that, hey, let's go see a cider house. You're gonna do that, let's go see what Deer is hunting, and like you're opening this up to that's your concern. I see what you're saying.

Joe 48:34

Yes, I I don't yeah, I don't want that. I don't think anybody wants that, but maybe you're right. They think that that's what people want.

Tom 48:40

I think they think that's what people want.

Joe 48:41

Um I have faith that that's not gonna happen. Although I still question that decision at the end, which makes me a little just a little bit nervous. Just a little, a little teeny nervous. Um but season two uh apparently is already uh under underway production. So that's good news. Yeah, we'll find out soon, relatively. 2027. We'll be talking about this show again in about a year. I I don't know exactly. Only 10 months away. My guess is it's gonna be at least second half of the next year, but now that the season is over, final final opinions. Was this a successful adaptation?

Jen 49:22

I think so. Yeah. I think it was pretty much on the money. And there were a couple of changes, a couple of like additions or expansions, but for the most part it was it was pretty spot on.

Joe 49:35

I think the the last change at the very end might be the biggest change. Yeah. Like the flashbacks are flashbacks, right? Those don't really affect anything going forward.

Tom 49:45

Yeah.

Joe 49:46

Um that's probably the biggest change, though. That's that's the question mark. Um, uh yeah, successful. I agree, definitely. One of the better adaptations of literature to screen in terms of you know, being faithful to the story, um, the tone, the characters, um, and then obviously just making it really fucking good.

Tom 50:09

Yeah. And it is my my my rating for this episode aside, the season, the season overall is really fucking good, and I would recommend it to anybody. Uh people who liked Game of Thrones or people who didn't. Like it's I think it's really well done.

Joe 50:22

And uh not Game of Thrones, it's not House of the Dragons. Even if you didn't like Game of Thrones, this is different. It's different. It's in the same world, but different. Very different. It's not like, you know, medieval soap opera.

Tom 50:35

Right. It's it's uh no, I I I think it was it was really good. I am very excited uh that we won't have to wait too long for a second season. Yeah.

Joe 50:43

Awesome. But we've got plenty of other stuff to talk about in between anyway. We don't have to we don't have to wait, you know, a year and a half and and talk about pets and uh horses and chickens and things. We've got other stuff to talk about. There's plenty of other adaptations to talk about.

Jen 51:02

We didn't have to talk about chickens. We wanted to chose to, and we wanted to.

Tom 51:08

Um but speaking of do you want to tell people here what we're gonna talk about next? Is that what we do?

Joe 51:14

No, join us. Well, no. Come into our Discord. We've already posted what we're talking about next on our next episode.

Jen 51:21

You don't want people to be prepared?

Joe 51:23

We could we can post, I guess we could tweet it out or something too. It's more I feel like that's more people are gonna oh it doesn't matter. Okay. I was I was gonna try to talk my way out of it, but I can't.

Jen 51:34

Okay.

Joe 51:35

We got something new next week. Uh we're gonna be going well tease. Do you want to tease it, Jen?

Jen 51:42

Um, sure. We're gonna go more towards the science fiction side of science fiction fantasy. And we're gonna go back way back, way back to an extremely old piece of literature. To the 19th century. And um and a and a very new-ish movie. So well, and as compared to how how old the book is. All right, but you know what I mean.

Tom 52:14

Right.

Jen 52:15

It's not yes, yes, it's and we I can pretty much guarantee that that's not gonna be a successful adaptation as this was, but maybe I'll be proven wrong next week.

Joe 52:27

All right. I want to remind everyone follow us on social media. You can follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Blue Sky. Join us over in Discord to continue the conversation there. We also post our episodes on YouTube, so be sure to go to our YouTube page to like and subscribe and comment and do all that cool things. Um, rate and review us wherever you listen to podcasts, and check out our Patreon page to support us that way. Links to all the aforementioned information are included in the show notes to this episode. Final thoughts as we close the book on the hedge night and a night of the seven kingdoms season one.

Jen 53:01

Uh, good night always finishes the story. A true night or a good night? What was it?

Joe 53:07

A true night.

Jen 53:08

A true night always finishes the story.

Joe 53:10

George. Thanks everyone for listening, and you'll hear us next time.